Difference between revisions of "AdultContentPolicyValues"

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Values that we are Trading Off

In this section of the AdultContentPolicy we help each other articulate the values that affect this decision. If every participant feels that their values are well represented in this section, it becomes much easier to proceed to a discussion of tradeoffs among those values in the following sections.

Some of these values are in conflict with one another. When the discussions become heated, it may signal an opportunity to return to this section and help each other better articulate the importance of each of these values. And remember ... it's the values that are in conflict not the participants.

Clustered AboutUsValues

Below is an exhaustive collection of all of our values we've thought of so far. This section contains values held by any part of our community or staff. Please feel free to add more values that you think are important for the AboutUs community to have, or to explain a value listed below more thoroughly.

How We Treat Others

How We Work

Unclustered (Includes Duplicates From Other Sections)

Feel free to move any of these into the clusters above, or create a 3rd (or 4th) cluster, if appropriate.

ToBeClustered

1. User experience
2. SEO
3. Reputation of AboutUs
4. Make AboutUs a site we can be proud of
5. Come up with a creative win-win solution
6. Workplace environment (impact on)
7. Possibility of keeping Alexa top 500 porn sites?
8. Separate personal beliefs from AboutUs ideals
9. Where is the line?
10. Scalability
11. True to AboutUs
12. Best resources for users
13. Compatible with investors
14. Additional work required
15. Build community, and communities
16. Is there value despite our moral misgivings
17. Separate our values from the ideals of the wiki

• What about the Portland category ... does porn get in?

• Site Value
  • Valuable Site Culture, more than just the people, includes activities, and the effects of users interacting with each other (culture of fear, community of fear) you can have a culture without community
  • Valuable Site Content
  • Profitability
• Broad appeal
  • Safe environment, afraid a random clique will bring offensive material, unexpected offensive material, where a woman can be a real * Environment in which people feel welcome and comfortable
• Feeling free to build a community without pressure of the broad community

person

• Staff culture, feel comfortable with the decisions that are made
• Balanced

• More resources available

• Pragmatism ... sometimes holding completely to a value isn't practical (e.g., spam content, and illegal sites)
• Constructive ... people don't log in
• Doesn't appear to be constructive
• Large portion, but not much constructive, anything I have seen hasn't been constructive
• I've seen a few times when people have changed the description to suit the site
• Filter, extra work
• Profanity isn't being constructive
• Difficult to decide what is acceptable for a description of adult sites
• Comprehensiveness ... we're non-secular, there is no reason to take a
  • Is a site morally good or bad?
  • Should we include a page about the site?
• Inclusive ... not take anyone off the site unless it's illegal ...
  • Not judging sites, adult content that is legal
  • Spam is not constructive, obviously there to harm us
  • Keep websites that are primarily spammers and people should be able to review, we don't want to be spammers
  • There is a clear line with legal and illegal
• Trying to figure out how people in the future will react, it's possible people will say they took the easy way, folks in the adult content industry being upset because we excluded them
• We should know what we are aiming for
• Right now we can shape the direction of the company, and site
• If we keep it we have the same issues ... what does that do for what we want to accomplish
• Positive environment
• Huge positive community of people in the adult content industry
• Edits on adult content sites are largely people taking their contact infomratino off or taking he whole site off

• Unless we leave it alone entirely we're going to have a lot of work ahead of us
• Efficiency

• Wanted vs Unwanted
• Don't want kids stumbling across adult content
• Don't think that porn
• If folks want to organize adult content
• Squeaky wheel gets oiled
• Don't have strategic plans
• Not everyone has the values
• Grassroots
• Top-down
• Process of coming to agreements and disagreements is important
• Optout and logo are brutal and long already
• AboutUs may be built by 15-25 age group ... what do they want? Distinction between wanted and unwanted seems important.
• How we make the decision is most important to me rather than the outcome

• Badge a site
• Make a donation in your name
• openid, email address, potential here maybe
• Age verification

• Complete Inclusivity
• Keeping our fingers out of the pie, remembering that we are just members of the community
• The site is as much our users as it is ours
• Leave decisions up to the community
• Organizers not police
• Thinking outside of the box
• Don't artificially limit ourselves
• Be bold and brave
• There's an opportunity in adult content
• Useful to organize information no matter what kind
• Organize "entire" internet
• Rebuilding the internet, making it editable, site by site
• Uneccessary work ... splitting off content into another realm

• AboutUs reflects internet society ... personal feelings are "I don't look at them" ... I've opted out
• People should be able to opt out of that content or opt in
• People should be able to avoid any exposure to adult content
• I encountered through random button, otherwise I'm not sure how I would encounter it
• I don't see porn because I don't go to the porn sites
• People should be able to call themselves whatever they want
• If bustybetty wants to engage with me, I would engage with her ... if it was really pornographic I would hesitate
• Porn doesn't freak me out, no religious thing against it, not a hot button issue
• To be happy in the world I don't know much about it
• I don't feel that it pollutes our site
• No need to do the walled stuff
• No illegal porn
• Reflect society, there are completely ethical porn places
• Just don't have it in the presence meters ... if we didn't have it there I could avoid it in the same way that I avoid it on the internet as a whole
• Quality of life issue for people who have to do recent changes and engage with it on a daily basis ... would affect my quality of life
• Have people who are totally fine with it patrolling the recent changes ... people for whom it wouldn't negatively affect them
• Include the fact that you are going to have to deal with porn in hiring for recent changes
• We still have to patrol adult land to make sure that there is not illegal porn and to make sure that it is constructive
• We need to quantify how large the presence is, how much work it is ectetera
• How much does patrolling porn affect people
• More stock/generic replies for adult content ... make it fast to deal with
• AboutUs reflects society as a whole
• It has been said that 83% of sites are adult ... check that
• From a business standpoint we have to stay well within the law
  • Non-arbitrary ... just follow the policy
• There are image issues if we keep
  • We're overrun with pornography
  • People being freaked out that their content information is on our site ... but it is publicly available information
  • Get freaked out about how much is out there rather than the fact that it is on our site
• There are image issues if we get rid of
  • Who is making the decisions
  • What are the criteria
  • Jump to the conclusion that it was a religious based decision
• Who gets to make the decisions about what falls into adult content
• Who is deciding and what are the criteria
• Don't want it to be subjective
• Equally applied
• Removing it all means that we could be getting rid of valuable content ... as valuable as some random game site ... what about politically correct pornography (Dan Savage "Savage Love")
• I get worried because of the religious baggage around pornography
• Internet filters
• Perhaps a good compromise is to have no images, or images that aren't graphic, a bearskin rug in front of a fireplace
• Policy that goes across the board, you can't have racy images

• Didn't totally resonate with me
• I could see starting a consensus polling process with a proposal
• Someone starts the consensus polling process and outlines what some of the sticky issues are
• I want you to put your name down as participating
• I like the idea, seems particularly useful in discussions that need to be drawn out (have every little thing said)
• Seems, put into a process ... let's have a meeting and saying yes let's have a consensus poll ... and someone puts up where we got in the meeting
• I do think it is useful to talk about the values that are informing my decision
• I think that the values that have come up are predictable
  • Inclusivity
  • It's easy to understand why someone would want to get rid of it
  • It's easy to
• A little more process behind the process
• It seems like a lot of work for you to go around and interview everyone ... whereas it could come about more organically if everyone understood the process and the role it plays in coming to a contentionus deciosion
• I do like the idea of how easy it is to engage the non-staff AboutUs meeting
• It came
• It was decided as a group to take it to consensus polling ... that somebody takes on the process of putting up the stuff ... and
• This time, Brandon saw that it could play a role ... it's the first time it got used ... perhaps it had to go this way the first time ... being driven by Brandon ...
• It seemed like we were close, and then there is a lot of process
• If I came to a place where I thought consensus polling would aid a decision
• I'm ready to see the proposal
• I'm reticent to say not yet because I didn't like the thresholds
• I'm reticent to say yes because there is nothing for me to say yes to
• I like what Ted says, because seeing who all is involved ... I think our decision will reflect all of those divergent values ... come to a decision to work to
• I am saying yes to trying consensus polling, it seems like an interesting way to engage the larger community
• I'd like to see how easy or difficult it is to engage people
• When we decide at an all hands meeting we decide who wants a vote (100% of 11 people)

• Family values
  • I want my kids to grow up in an environment where they don't have to worry about this kind of stuff
  • That pornography and adult content won't enter their lives
• Pornography addiction is a problem
• Not a victimless crime
• Don't facilitate
• Don't tacitly approve of pornography and adult content by having it on our site
• I don't want my kids exposed to it
• Dad is working for this company now, what are they putting up on this site
• I don't want to be known as a facilitator of pornographic content
• I don't think I could work for a company that is known for facilitating pornographic content ... a site that you would go to and there was a great probability that you would run across it whether you wanted it or not
  • For example, my wife got on two weeks ago and it was like it was everywhere (before we had it taken out of the random page) ... everywhere she went there was something she found offensive
• Having a great slew of content Doesn't sit well with me
  • Facilitation ... there are people who are going to feed on it
  • There is no appreciation of the artistic values ... prurient interest
  • It's not like stamp collecting
• Risk
  • Company
  • Company reputation
  • My reputation
  • Biggest single risk factor
• This morning I was reading an article about a guy who had a bunch of kiddy porn on his computer and was exploiting kids ... what if our name was associated with it
  • Portland area Internet company becomes the biggest porn gateway in the world ... there is a huge variety
• All of a sudden we lose the investors (right off the top) even if they tacitly approve of it ... once you are tarred with that brush you'll have a hard time finding people who will sign up
• Once you personally become tarred with it is tough to shake
• A significant portion of the populace will take their business elsewhere
• Friends will avoid you
• It gives the impression of being sneaky if you have it and it's hidden
• You can no longer explain it away
• You've organized it
• You're facilitating it
• You own it
• The content is going to seep onto the site, through comments, images, thumbnails, ...
• You can no longer deny being an author or a provider of this ... you can't do it
• You have no idea whether the girl in the thumbnail is 18 ... illegal
• A whitelist ... a whois adult ... type in a site name and it tells you whether it is adult or not
• List the site, even if it has bad words, so that we have a complete record of the internet
• Being Complete
• It's neat to have a common place where all of them are listed
• Take all the content off and have just a warning, this is an adult site, maybe the whois information ... people would have to take an action off of your site to get to it (no external links) ... restrictions ... no edit at all ... login to edit
• The rc patrollers, or flag it and have a special group do it
• Policy must be very clear
• Community Standards
• Asymmetry of feeling, polarization
• Having adult content associated with wiki
  • Like wikipedia is associated with wiki right now ... what if the first big wiki had been a porn wiki rather than an encyclopedia?