RK Discussion Archive/4

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Call Button

I think it's an excellent idea. Nathan (talk) / 22:34, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

ConcernsFAQ

I decided to delete all the irrelevant questions from the ConcernsPage (revert if you wish) and just add a ConcernsFAQ to point people to. Feel free to edit/change wording as you like, of course. Nathan (talk) / 23:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Spammer

Our illustrious spammer friend is still at it. Nathan (talk) / 08:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Tanwir Video

Hi Ray, check out the new video I uploaded for Tanwir Shah

Whois concern

I am trying to get my personal data removed from this site and finding it extremely difficult - ABOUTUS.ORG does not seem to understand that WHOIS data is available in a public accessible database purely for the purposes of a legitimate WHOIS lookup - it is not available for sites like this to re-publish to the web.

Please feel free to send us () a list of domains for which you would like the contact information removed. As a note, whois information is widely available on many sites, many of whom will not delete it upon request. You may wish to purchase a "proxy" service from your registrar. - Ray | talk

Re: Reference

Ray, I'd be glad to. Just let me know. DrewMyers | talk

Storyteller's Bazaar

Hello Ray,

Have you paid a visit to TheStorytellersBazaar yet? If not, please do. It's jam packed with all sorts of writing activities. Read some of the contributions and hopefully they will inspire you to contribute too. The more you contribute the better the site will become. Come and have a look and enjoy. Tanwir Shah

Wow, that's pretty neat, thanks for the tip - Ray | talk

Bay Area Venture Firms

Hi Ray, We have been beefing up these firms for the past 2 days. Could you have a look at them and tell us what you think. Is there enough information or should we pump it up a little more? We have another day to work on things so there is still time to make any improvements you may suggest. Tanwir Shah

That's a good point

I tried talking to other in IRC, but no one was there... at first I thought it was a new hire. But yeah, I agree... I tried to leave him a talk message but with the case space duplicates it went to his old one and yeah. I was mostly reverting because it lumped him with the big shot employees and he probably doesn't need those sorts of messages from the public. Ooh, I wonder if he has an active member tag yet. I'm going to go check that.

Kristina 20:15, 30 June 2007 (PDT)

To add to that, I had no idea what to think of his edit to AboutUs; I just asked him not to do that. Feel free to revert me if you like. I personally don't think non-staff should be listed on that page unless perhaps they've made some significant contribution to the site (I don't think even I qualify yet). Nathan (talk) / 03:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


Yeah, that sounds pretty good. Are all sections going to be on the AboutUs.org page, cause that could get pretty big. I like that though, it's like a step beyond the category tags. Kristina 23:47, 30 June 2007 (PDT)

Neds mailto link w/graphic

Your home page talks about Neds.com and their use of a mailto link with the image of their email address. that produces HTML code which appears to defeat the purpose of hiding the email address! View source on their aboutus page and you will see what I mean.

Yeah, I see that; it would be good to have a way for the "mailto" function to go through a proxy address to protect it also. Good find, thanks! - Ray | talk
Yea, the mailto link is rarely used on this wiki for that reason. We just keep it to the graphic image. MarkDilley

The old Zeal database

Please consider purchasing the old Zeal.com database of web sites from Looksmart so that you could use the brief Zeal reviews to expand or create hundreds of thousands of AboutUs pages. I would recommend adding the description part of any imported Zeal listing in a new section of the appropriate AboutUs page, perhaps titled "Review by an editor", so as to avoid overwriting the existing description section, and using AboutUsBot to more fully populate any page derived from the Zeal database which was not already present in AboutUs. As you probably know, Zeal was a user-edited directory which was acquired and later closed by Looksmart. Zeal also developed a separate database of French-language web sites which might also be worth purchasing.

Since Zeal was closed in March 2006, all the listings are at least a year old. Many are for individual pages rather than domains. Nonetheless, a great deal of staff and volunteer time went into creating all these entries and, even after allowing for the fact that many of the URLs in Zeal no longer work, the database could be of considerable value to AboutUs. And since Looksmart has written off its investment in Zeal, you might be able to acquire the database fairly cheaply.

As well, the current AboutUs category structure isn't ideal. If you were to adopt the Zeal category structure, users would probably be able to locate the information they need more easily.

I have nothing to do with Looksmart. I was a volunteer editor (a "zealot") at Zeal. --Eohippus 17:23, 15 July 2007 (PDT)

iPhone test

something I want to show u later MarkDilley

YourRecentChanges

The idea to offer rc patrol to other wiki. ~~ MarkDilley

Neat idea, let's talk more about it - Ray | talk

Hi Ray, The AboutUsLogo ConsensusPoll has surpassed all it's GoThresholds and we will be turning on the DoneTimer as soon as all participants have been notified. This means that all participants now have the opportunity to check AboutUsLogo one more time, to make sure we haven't overlooked something. Please feel free to change the document and/or change your status, if need be. Best, Obed Suhail

Sweet! Thanks for letting me know and see you soon - Ray | talk

iPhone Internationally

If you haven't already figured it out, its $.005 per KB. But be cafeful there are already some people with a 3K bill. --Simon | talk 09:18, 1 August 2007 (PDT)

WhoWeAre

Hi,

I would just like to tell you about the WhoWeAre consensus poll. This is a unique opportunity for all community members to discuss and decide what AboutUs is and more importantly what role we, the community, plays.

The discussion is still in its initial stages and there are a handful of people involved in this discussion. But it's not enough. Every one of us has a stake in this process. We all need to air our views. Our opinions will make a difference. We cannot and must not let a handful of people define us. We must speak out and contribute because we are being defined and I for one would like to have a say in how I am being defined.

Please contribute to this really important project. Without you it cannot successfully create a good definition of who we are. Tanwir Shah

ArtSapience.com

Yes, they've cleaned up the forum a whole lot; but, there's still a bunch of stuff in there. --Simon | talk 09:10, 18 August 2007 (PDT)

In my opinion, the place is sick. And, we should provide a place for them to defend themselves. I'm fine with the page as it is, with the notice there locked. And, is there any way to provide (through transclusion?) an open forum for discussion about the site and also leave in place the warning that's there now? TedErnst | talk
If this can be done, I think it would be an excellent idea. I know one of the members personally and from what he's told me, some people over there think that AboutUs is being extremely unfair and biased. --Joey 11:43, 18 August 2007 (PDT)

Unfortunately i got into this late. Unfair and biased? lol did you see the screenshots I have? Unfortunately I cannot post half the stuff i saw on that site. And it is illegal in many states what they are doing and on a federal level. To not warn people of that is criminal. In the words of the Admin himself a thread called: "Like looking at little girls?": "I have 2 beautiful little girls aged 8 and 11 years old running around the house everyday, I see them in there panties and I see them when they get out of the spa, shower and they climb on me and rub up against me all the time, they are my children and to feel sexual excitement when around them because they are beautiful scares me"... THIS IS WHAT IS ON ART SAPIENCE, don't let them fool you. I posted the screenshot which includes the Admin's avatar of a little girl in see through lingerie. If you want it, leave me a message and I'll post it again. I have a feeling he is going to delete the evidence. And be careful of darkgiant he is an admin too.Misha

Oh and one more thing... you won;t see the sickest stuff until you make some posts. It might look pretty tame until you make some posts and then all kinds of sick stuff starts popping up. This guy got 5 years for having a site with child modelling pics on it. I have reported the site ot the FBI. If the owners delete the screenshots, I have plenty more I can e-mail. Just let me know. http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,680193380,00.html Misha

LaptopPolicy listening

Ray, I think the listening you're doing on the LaptopPolicy is really fantastic! Just wanted to acknowledge your work on this. Excellent! peace, TedErnst

Artsapience.com

It is not for you to decide if it is sick or not.This website is not the "Moral Police" of the internet.If you allow "Open Discussions" you will revert our website back the the original spider crawled meta data and then lock the page from further editing,then you can allow this "open forum for discussion" to discuss it. I am sure there are far worse "sick" things on the internet then teens modeling.Just because you do not agree with it does not make it wrong(for example over time it has been;Democracy,man flying,Womens right to vote,Homosexuality,racism(your great grandparents or further generations where racist,does that make you a racist now becuase your ancestors where?)). Go to Google and type any of the following keywords, "rape","incest","sodomy","murder","decapitation", I believe those are quite "sickening" then teens modeling.Why should the page be locked with the current content? It is false information.You are not allowing us to represent ourselves adequately.Having a separate "discussion forums",buried within your site, will not alter the indexing on major crawler such as Google,yahoo,msn and other search indexes.By allowing this information to be posted you are stating libelous remarks about our domain.By your own definition of "Adult Content", we have no such content nor do we advertise,link to, or otherwise display such content.Allowing this "notice" to be posted is further more stating derogatory statements and hindering our domain from future prospects. Darkgiant 10:33, 19 August 2007 (PDT)

ArtSapience.com

The ArtSapience.com website do think it is extremely biased of AboutUs to block the editing and not allow the removal of the content and that of the

false reference information openly edited and described by the administration of AboutUs, it depicts our site as one of having illegal contents and

associates keyword with our domain on various locations around the internet such as search engines like google, yahoo, msn with reference to

child sex, pro-paedophilia and other disgusting terms which it certainly does not have and is most certainly against those acts.

I am a husband and loving father of two and also have studies in child protection and the site is in no way illegal.

We are looking forward to advertising the site publicly and the Art Wiki will know doubt be very popular indeed, containing legal references to

internet behaviour and that of art photography industry, We will be very open to discussion as the normal use of a Wiki based site is for (apart from

AboutUs, who will not allow a person or company to edit false and libellous information made about them described by the administration of the

site). There are millions of people in the world suffering from discrimination for things that are not legally binding and offcourse the offenders of

these crimes should be punished under the fullest extent of the law just as a racist or religious hate crime would be. There are many various laws

around the world and people interested in the Art Photography industry and that of its legal standing in various countries around the world apart

from the self absorbed American culture that seem to think that they are the government to the world and not just of there own country.

The reference your website makes about our completely legal website are bias and libellous just as you would make a racial or religious bias

your company has made a bias against our site and has denied any form of communication and has blocked the editing of OUR information. Your

company was provided a detailed description from the administration and owner of the domain of exactly what the business goal and that of our

websites under construction but you have failed to make any effort to rectify this matter.

Numerous persons from your site have visited the artsapience.com website and have joined and browsed the site and have provided no feedback

and were contacted while on the site and we were ignored again by your company, Your hate and bias for our site is further proven by one of your

administrative members of staff's public statement "In my opinion, the place is sick." about our website. You are outside you own legal obligations

it would appear, you refuse to remove the libellous references to our domain from your website even after explicit instruction and requests from

the domain owner as describe it your site legal statements.

Administrator/Owner

Art Sapience

Forums | Wiki | Software | Search Engine

To ArtSapience - I rolled back your last edit because in making the edit, you wiped out comments left by other people. Also, you left me a link but in order to see it, one must have a user account on the ArtSapience site, which I don't have or want. If there is a reference you would like me to see, please just post the link here. Thanks - Ray | talk

NOTICE

Currently there's a controversy going on regarding this website as to whether:

File:ItsATrustThing.gif

It's the right of the community to decide the exact status of this website.

If would like to weigh in on either side, you can join the discussion here. ArtSapience 08:14, 23 August 2007 (PDT)

You forgot the link.
My take: We have policies which cover just about anything. If you have a problem with the site, talk to us, that's we're here for, instead of writing an entirely-too-long essay on why AboutUs is not to be trusted. Wikipedia is not be trusted. Don't put us in the same category as Wikipedia. If we don't have a policy on something and you think we should, talk to us, we might open a poll about that subject and policy would be created. That's how things work.
So to me, this is a non-issue. You have the same right as anyone to make complaints and suggest policy - now whether you take advantage of that right or merely moan and complain is up to you. In my opinion, if you don't actively take a part in the direction AboutUs is heading and actively make comments, complaints and suggestions, your opinion should count for absolutely nothing. "If you don't vote, you lose the right to complain". Without the community to help, AboutUs wouldn't be here today.
I would be one of the first to address the problem if there was a problem. We have mechanisms to flag adult content, and the community has decided this, so it's no longer an issue. Nathan (talk) / 16:45, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi Nathan! I think this long essay by Art, though inflammatory, is a big step in the right direction. We've been working, not altogether successfully, at communication for a little while now. Simon, Asad and I have all been very involved in this, along with Misha. I can see how this might see "out of the blue," and it's really not. I think Art is used to being attacked, so reacts in a certain way based on that. I've been to his site, and if you follow the link he posts near the bottom of his essay to the page on his site about AboutUs, you'll see he calls me by name. I'd love to have your thoughts on this whole situation if you have the time. Phone call today? peace, Ted Ernst | talk 10:32, 23 August 2007 (PDT)
I just don't understand why it has to be so inflammatory when it can instead be "Several suggestions to improve AboutUs" or something just as constructive. Complaining isn't constructive, suggestions are constructive. I don't know enough of the whole background to make many comments, though. Nathan (talk) / 17:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree, being inflammatory isn't helpful. Ted Ernst | talk

FINAL LEGAL NOTICE

AboutUs.org Website,

We Art Sapience at no point in time requested to be on your site, we have asked to be removed from your site and were declined (This clearly goes against the policies of your site) then we were forced to defend our site in discussions we did not wish to take part in but were forced to by your website in order to uphold the good name of our website, your staff has made numerous libelous remarks about our site so I personally have spent many, many, many hours calmly and rationally finding away to have our site advertised legally as it is a completely legal website, But only to have your users vandalize our site over and over again and abuse me and my staff with accusations and still your site does nothing, Your site was provided access to legal documentation which clearly states the breaches your company has made and how the user Misha is according to your websites policies should be removed from your site but instead she is allowed to continue harassing and making bias remarks about us all with complete knowledge of the AboutUs staff, Is Misha the voice of the company AboutUs? It would appear that your company is completely bias about its users, If I need to build a website to advertise how bias your website is I shall do so if required, I can make another hobby if this is what you would like, I am rather certain I can have your AboutUs website in every website you would love to be associated with in as many locations as I can possibly locate on the internet, Your website allows PEDOPHILES to move onto Child Pornography, you add in the enhancement of PEDOPHILES sexual desires by forcing them away from a help. I could write novels on this sort of things.

Your user Misha is the voice of your company apparently as you will not follow your own policies and have her removed from your site one can only assume she is in fact a member of staff and therefore expressing her voice as representative of the AboutUs.org website, This user has on numerous occasions breached the copyright violations that has been advised to your company many times, Also she has removed copyright notices and various other legal documents from our website description without our permission and when we put the text back she again deletes our comments including anything we may say in our defense against here bias and hateful remarks against us. If you have read the legal document provided to your company it clearly states that this users has in fact committed various hate crimes and we have reference them for you convince.

The only thing to do now as we have committed no illegal activities and have taken all reasonable efforts for our websites reference to be removed and to protect ourself from these hate crimes and also copyright violation from users using numerous libelous remarks the only thing is for legal proceeding to take place against your company to follow the polices that are clearly stated on your website that have most certainly NOT been followed.

Certain parts of our website are for-profit and have been delayed greatly on release because of your websites activities and the ongoing costs of the high-end servers and other administrative costs including but not limited to any loss of earnings resulting from inability to generate profit from the enormous marketplace that this industry has shall be brought into question.

As your company is so unreasonable please advised as to the processes to take to allow our legal depart to contact yours to have this matter settled.

Alternatively you can remove any references to the website ArtSapience.com including the username ArtSapience from your servers immediately as requested in the very beginning.

Regards,

Art

Administrator / Domain Owner

Art Sapience

REFERENCE: http://www.artsapience.com/aboutus.htm

Ray > Art

It is your right to take legal action if you need to, but that would be a shame given that I believe we all share the common ground of wanting children to be safe from physical or mental abuse and exploitation. Here are some thoughts:

  • On free speech - I think people should be allowed to express their views on our site so long as its done constructively. With regard to this debate, there are comments which I believe are either personal attacks or non-constructive and as such I have removed what I can find.
  • Intellectual Property - Some or all of what was posted may be fair use, but to be sure that we are respectful of intellectual property rights I have removed anything I could find that looked like it was copied from the ArtSapience.com site. If I have missed anything, please let me know.
  • Libelous remarks - Libel and slander do not belong on AboutUs.

I've cut a fair amount of material and also left what looked like it was intelligent discourse. If I've erred on the side of cutting too much or too little, please feel free to edit or repost. This goes for anyone, but please do it respectfully and constructively.

I've also put your longer post directly on the ArtSapience.com page as it seemed to be the best overall description of your site I could find. The page is also now unlocked.

We are not perfect, so I've left your negative comments about AboutUs.

I obviously don't have control over things said by you or other users on the ArtSapience site, I trust you to moderate your site as you see fit.

- Ray | talk

  • Legal or not Legal, this is the question.

Artsapience is breaking copyright law with every posting of said models on said “site“. It is a joke to think that they, the “site” can take any legal action whatever.

All the sets of the models on the “site” have been stolen via the internet and then Uploaded to the “site” with no authorisation or accreditation to the original owners of the copyright.

So to talk of legal action is a farce.


Jack Jones.

Art > Ray

Its it possible to simply lock the main page of our reference as it is not required for editing and any discussions are to take place on the next page so there is no need for it to be open for editing by all, Also I was attempting to respond to comments by Misha and Nathan Has continued to delete and then re-delete and then re-delete them blocking my opinion from being heard to defend our site, He says the reason is the word stupid was used to describe a person (a group not individual) but you must compare that your site calls me and our site pedophiles among many other false and very insulting things and we are to simply sit back and not say anything about it? It does not make sense, I would certainly think if you walk up to a person on the street and called them stupid they would look at you funny but if you called the a pedophile and then insulted their staff and the company practices including making person attacks to the owner (myself) about my daughter and sexual molestation aligations, this is simply not on and truly unprofessional and this is completely condone by your company and the bias opinions by the Misha, she has breached every policy your site has but has received no penalty at all and the staff of your site appear to also carry a bias for us it would appear. We did not wish for an association with your site but have been forced to defend our selfs on a daily basis. Can you please lock the main reference at least to save us some time in visiting this fast becoming nothing more than another internet annoying site you wished you never heard of...

I think this site does have a positive future and I do understand and appreciate its goals but with such bias people behind the wheel I cannot see your road being very smooth at all...

Art, pedophilia is a complicated and highly charged subject. Obviously, no one wants children to be harmed. You have said that you are against any harm to children and you are vigilant about keeping inappropriate or illegal material off your site. I will believe that to be true unless proven otherwise. Let me ask a dumb question: Would it be correct to say that ArtSapience.com is a site that helps people who are attracted to underage people and not a site that condones it? Similar to Alcoholics Anonymous which (as I understand it) is pro-alcoholics, but not pro-alcoholism? The reason I ask is so that we can agree some clearer language and then maybe the page won't need to be locked down - although I'm open to locking it down if necessary also. - Ray | talk


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