Thoughts On Communication
A common communication for the entire staff / community has not been developed yet. The front page of the wiki and community portal, now named DailyBuzz are part of somethign that is communication, but it is not consistent and all inclusive of what staff / community needs.
There is a need for a creative solution soon to this issue. Email is not really an answer to this, although TedErnst and MarkDilley have spoken of an ideat to email the DailyBuzz to staff and active community members daily. (with instructions on how not to receive those emails.) The idea was not warmly welcomed however.
Working Collaboratively
bed: Ted, are you still there? [12:02am] TedErnst: yes obed [12:02am] TedErnst: what's up? [12:03am] obed: Ted, the consensus poll tour is not on the WikiAnatomy tour page anymore... [12:03am] MarkDilley: Hi Obed, I moved it [12:03am] TedErnst: really? [12:03am] TedErnst: today, Mark? [12:03am] MarkDilley: Looks like there is a project page for it [12:03am] MarkDilley: Yes, actually just 30 minutes ago [12:03am] obed: Hi Mark [12:04am] MarkDilley: Hi Obed [12:04am] MarkDilley: I moved all additional tours off of the wiki anatomy tour (wiki writing and wiki history as well) [12:05am] MarkDilley: We wanted to be able to finish the darn thing and there were new additions happening all the time! [12:05am] obed: Ted, Mark how can we point the "Tour Home" button on the navigation to point somewhere else? [12:06am] MarkDilley: What do you mean Obed, give me a url [12:06am] TedErnst: Mark, I'm not sure I follow the reasoning. Say more? [12:06am] obed: http://www.aboutus.org/ConsensusPolling:Problems_with_Voting [12:07am] WebUser joined the chat room. [12:07am] MarkDilley: Ted, there has been work on WikiAnatomy for several months, we wanted to be able to finish the project, but instead there were 3 more tours added. I made them seperate projects, until I saw there was already a project for http://www.aboutus.org/Projects:ConsensusPollTour [12:08am] TedErnst: can't the tours all be on the same page even with different projects? [12:08am] MarkDilley: Obed, you are using the WikiAntaomy Tour navigation [12:08am] obed: yes Mark... [12:08am] MarkDilley: Ted, that conflicts with our goal of making it simple for new people. [12:08am] TedErnst: ? [12:08am] WebUser left the chat room. (Client Quit) [12:09am] MarkDilley: What is better for a new person, fewer tours or more? [12:09am] MarkDilley: None the less, let's start discussion it somewhere [12:09am] TedErnst: I'm not following you. Are we talking about the number of tours or where the tours live? [12:09am] MarkDilley: now where... [12:10am] MarkDilley: Yes [12:10am] MarkDilley: Where the WikiAnantomy tour lives [12:10am] TedErnst: I'm confused [12:10am] MarkDilley: What are you confused about Ted? [12:11am] TedErnst: I don't understand what the issue is. Clearly there's a larger issue here, and I don't understand it. The smaller issue is that a tour obed and I are working on is now broken, and has no home. So, how can we solve the small issue AND understand the larger issue, both? [12:12am] MarkDilley: I can make you a navigation system for your tour [12:12am] MarkDilley: to fix that [12:12am] MarkDilley: the larger issue probably needs to be sussed out in some discussion area. [12:13am] TedErnst: but you're understanding the larger issue enough tonight to make this change, yes? [12:14am] MarkDilley: The larger issue is that the WikiAnatomy tour was envisioned by folks to be a simple tour of wiki. My gut feeling is that the Consensus Poll Tour would fit best in the fourth tour of the WikiAnatomy tour. (by the way, there was considerable angst at moving from three tour parts to four in WikiAnatomy) [12:15am] TedErnst: which one is the 4th one? [12:16am] MarkDilley: I didn't know that the Consensus Poll Tour was using the WikiAnatomy navigation, else I would have fixed it. [12:16am] MarkDilley: Wiki Way [12:17am] TedErnst: by the way, no one commented on my [[TheWikiWay:AssumeGoodFaith]] experiment [12:17am] ABotUs: [TheWikiWay:AssumeGoodFaith] http://www.aboutus.org/TheWikiWay:AssumeGoodFaith [12:17am] TedErnst: and, if the 4th tour is TheWikiWay, why is this page called TheWikiWay:AssumeGoodFaith? [12:18am] MarkDilley: Because John started all the pages in this tour that way and noone has taken the time yet to change it [12:19am] TedErnst: ah [12:20am] TedErnst: okay, I don't understand the tours [12:20am] TedErnst: so, where does the consensus poll tour live now? [12:21am] MarkDilley: I thought there was a project page for it [12:21am] TedErnst: I'm lost [12:21am] MarkDilley: Think of WikiAnatomy as a project page for those tours, [12:21am] TedErnst: now I'm really lost [12:21am] MarkDilley: we were working on it before there were project pages [12:22am] MarkDilley: [[Category:WikiAnatomy]] is where it all started [12:22am] ABotUs: [Category:WikiAnatomy] http://www.aboutus.org/Category:WikiAnatomy [12:22am] TedErnst: I thought project pages were pages "about" something - the place where we organize the work - meta [12:22am] MarkDilley: sounds good to me [12:23am] TedErnst: okay, then where does the consensus polling tour live now that it's gone from wikianatomy? [12:23am] obed: should we make a seperate Tour page for it? [12:23am] MarkDilley: Makes sense to me to live at Portal:ConsensusPolls [12:24am] MarkDilley: take the tour, learn what these things are [12:24am] TedErnst: great idea [12:24am] MarkDilley: that is what the navigation is now, for now [12:24am] TedErnst: obed, does that sound okay? [12:24am] obed: yes [12:24am] TedErnst: as a box on the portal page? [12:24am] TedErnst: I like it [12:24am] obed: cool [12:25am] TedErnst: except that I want more visibility for it, but that'll come later, I suppose [12:25am] MarkDilley: yes, good idea [12:25am] obed: I'll make a new template for the navigation... using the same buttons... okay? [12:26am] TedErnst: sure [12:26am] MarkDilley: working on fixing that now [12:26am] obed: ok [12:26am] • MarkDilley feels bad I ddin't notice it broke things [12:27am] MarkDilley: Hey Obed, see the back and forth that Ted and I had? I hope we can do that sometime [12:27am] TedErnst: the brokenness isn't as big a deal to me as the fact that those pages didn't have a home after they were removed - I now see what you mean about the project page, but that was inadvertant duplication - so it's all good [12:28am] obed: okay Mark, cool [12:28am] MarkDilley: huh? [12:28am] MarkDilley: for ted [12:28am] TedErnst: those tour stops for the cp tour "lived" at wikianatomy [12:28am] TedErnst: so removing them leaves them homeless [12:29am] TedErnst: except you noticed that they also lived on the project page [12:29am] TedErnst: that was a mistake, I think [12:29am] MarkDilley: now they are going to live at the portal [12:29am] TedErnst: they shouldn't be living on the project page [12:29am] TedErnst: yes, Mark [12:29am] TedErnst: solution is fine with me [12:29am] MarkDilley: cool, I understand now [12:29am] TedErnst: I was just backtracking to see what my issue really was [12:29am] TedErnst: and the issue I had wasn't really an issue because you found a place those pages lived [12:29am] TedErnst: and the reason you found a place was becasue we made a mistake :-_) [12:30am] TedErnst: [12:30am] TedErnst: and duplicated the index for the tour [12:30am] MarkDilley: I think several of us has been workign for a while on the project WikiAnatomy and to have more tours added to it didn't feel right.... hopefully with project pages from now on that will resolve that type of issue [12:31am] MarkDilley: Obed, are you decent with graphics? [12:31am] obed: hmmm [12:31am] MarkDilley: Maybe making navigation buttons that fit with the portal? or not :-)_ [12:31am] MarkDilley: [12:32am] obed: im not sure if i'll be able to do it.. [12:32am] TedErnst: Mark, when we talked about this WikiAnatomy issue last week, or whenever that was, we talked about putting a link to the project, or wherever a major change can be discussed, in the edit summary - do you still like that idea? [12:32am] MarkDilley: no worries, not a high priority [12:32am] obed: but am rady to give it a try [12:32am] obed: *ready [12:32am] MarkDilley: cool [12:33am] obed: [12:33am] TedErnst: Mark? [12:33am] MarkDilley: I do remember that now, all I remembered to do this time was to leave a lengthy message [12:34am] TedErnst: I'm looking at the history, and I'm not getting it [12:34am] MarkDilley: removing one of the tours and creating a project page for it) [12:34am] MarkDilley: and [12:34am] MarkDilley: We want to be done with this tour! please don't add to it :-)) [12:34am] TedErnst: yes, I have no idea what to do with those [12:35am] TedErnst: and I really don't understand the reasoning of wanting to be "done" [12:35am] TedErnst: we're never "done" on a wiki! [12:35am] MarkDilley: are you ever done with a project on a wiki? [12:35am] TedErnst: yes ... and? [12:35am] MarkDilley: so the project WikiAnantomy, we wanted to be done with [12:35am] MarkDilley: is all [12:36am] TedErnst: I don't see what one thing has to do with the other [12:36am] MarkDilley: hu? [12:36am] TedErnst: why can't multiple projects concern one page? [12:36am] MarkDilley: if that is the way the project was conceived, that makes sense [12:36am] MarkDilley: but that is not how WikiAnatomy was conceived [12:37am] TedErnst: okay, we can call it a night [12:37am] MarkDilley: hehe [12:37am] TedErnst: I will never accept - that wasn't how we thought of it - as an answer [12:37am] MarkDilley: you are stubborn, I do know that [12:38am] TedErnst: that's a bureaucratic answer and it has no place here, methinks [12:38am] TedErnst: and yes, I am stubborn [12:38am] TedErnst: just because someone has an idea doesn't make that the final say [12:38am] MarkDilley: maybe if folks had come in and said hey we think this project could use a few more tours, what do you all think? [12:38am] MarkDilley: that might have worked. [12:38am] TedErnst: I didn't even know there was a project [12:38am] MarkDilley: huh? [12:39am] TedErnst: and as we said last week, pointing us to the project would've been a good idea, in the edit summary or otherwise [12:39am] TedErnst: I thought we'd resolved it when the CP tour came back on the page, but then again tonight, without disucussion that I'm aware of, it came off again [12:39am] MarkDilley: As I have said earlier in this convo, this project was the project page [12:39am] TedErnst: it's the same communication issue we have about everything - ongoing - no worries [12:39am] TedErnst: it's not a project page, however [12:40am] TedErnst: there's not names on it [12:40am] MarkDilley: ok, we need to work more on it, obviously. [12:40am] TedErnst: no discussion [12:40am] TedErnst: no next steps [12:40am] MarkDilley: right, in the last two weeks it is not a project page [12:40am] TedErnst: no "how can I help?" [12:40am] TedErnst: in the last two weeks? [12:40am] MarkDilley: since the inception of project pages [12:40am] TedErnst: I'm not following you [12:41am] MarkDilley: I am saying this was a project page before there were project pages. [12:41am] TedErnst: I don't understand what you mean by "project page" [12:41am] MarkDilley: and with the inception of project pages, this didn't get added to a project page quick enoigh [12:41am] MarkDilley: and the whole staff isn't using project pages as well as they could yet. [12:42am] TedErnst: I wouldn't have known if there was a [[Projects:WikiAnatomy]] anyway, because I'm not yet accustomed to looking for that [12:42am] ABotUs: [Projects:WikiAnatomy] http://www.aboutus.org/Projects:WikiAnatomy [12:42am] MarkDilley: here is a prjoect page http://www.aboutus.org/Projects:WikiAnatomy [12:42am] TedErnst: I'm not blaming, just trying to understand how these things happen [12:42am] MarkDilley: I don't feel blamed, I am just trying to explain [12:42am] TedErnst: and how we can be aware of how our actions are taken by others [12:43am] TedErnst: how was it decided to limit WikiAnatomy to 4 tours? [12:43am] MarkDilley: In January when we where having meetings on it, it was one tour
