Help.com

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Company Name

Finder, Inc

Company Contact

phone: 415 344 2000,123 123 1234

email:

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Title

Help.com

Description

The help.com website is supposed to be about giving & receiving (in other words: exchanging) help.

It seems to be 100% supported by sponsored links which are placed automatically and targeted to match the keywords contained in the problem solving discussion / comments written by the participants.

Languages

English

Address

150 Chestnut Street

USA

Contact

Finder, Inc

415 344 2000 123 123 1234

Additional Information

Community Review

2007/01/08

Here we go again

2008/01/02

The aforementioned discussion thread (see http://www.aboutus.org/Help.com#2007.2F12.2F18 below) has been deleted. An archived transcript of the discussion is still available at http://asinine.ws/clearing-the-air.html

A copy of this archived transcript is included here for informative purposes:

Clearing the Air

The follow text is copied from the shout-trail exchange between KT1 and myself. I would like to bring this out into the open for discussion. There may be some typos (sometimes I noticed spaces missing from the copy/paste activity) -- please feel free to edit and correct the typos.

I am eager to hear feedback from the help.com community!

Thanks for helping to clear the air!

:) nmw

====

KT1
Please stop spamming posts with URLs to fill in the contact form

====

xbox
I don't understand - when people ask for help, links are often provided to sites that might be helpful.

Could you explain your reasoning a little more?

====

KT1
The sites you were linking are empty, thus not helpful, and we are getting complaints.

====

xbox
who is complaining? why don't they start helping and stop complaining? Isn't "help" what this site is supposed to be about?

====

KT1
Yes,this site is about help and if you have informational or news sites to add to those topics in a contextual way, you are more than welcome to post tham. Posting undeveloped sites and advising users to contact you has the appearance of a scam.

====

xbox
It seems to me that you have perhaps had bad experiences in the past that make you fearful of scammers. I do not consider myself to be a scammer,and I feel it is inappropriate for you

to assume that I might be.

What could we do in order to abate your fears?

====

KT1
Stop posting links to sites with no content and asking people to fill out the form to contact you.

====

xbox
You seem to be avoiding my question:

1. there is content on those sites - including an invitation to become engaged and help

2. since the sites linked to are about helping WRT the topic in question, they are highly relevant

3.you appear to have not responded to my question about your fear of scammers - what experiences have you had in the past, and how did you deal with them (and how are these similar to the present situation)?

====

KT1
To answer your questions:

1. I have gone to the sites and there is no content.
2. There is no content on the sites, thus they are not relevant.
3. Scammers and spammers are banned.

====

xbox
we appear to have a difference of opinion WRT what qualifies as content.

Could you describe the basis for your judgement whether content exists or not?

For me, "no content" means that the browser shows an error message that nocontent was found. On the other hand, if the site returns data and the browser displays these data, then I refer to the data returned as the"content".

Could you describe what you mean when you say "content"? (since by the "operational definition" of content that I gave above there obviously is content at the sites I have linked to; but still you maintain that there is "no content" - could you explain this?)

====

KT1
We will have to agree to disagree.

====

xbox
and could you also explain how your statement that "scammers and spammers are banned" is related to the present situation?

====

KT1
You asked what was done to scammers and spammers and I answered.

====

xbox
OK, so I guess that it really isn't relevant to the present situation after all.

And I am sorry to say that I cannot agree or disagree with your remarks about "content" since you are not explaining what you mean when you refer to "content" (and therefore your views seem abstract rather than concrete). I guess I will just have to accept that you are unable to describe what you mean (when you refer to "content") and therefore your statements about the presence or absence of content are invalidated).

I am not unwilling to listen to you, but if you do not wish to explain yourself, then I will simply have to accept that, I guess.

If that's what you mean by "agree to disagree", then OK - I can accept that you do not wish to talk about it.

====

KT1
As an example, this link you posted has content of a helpful nature, http://works.in/com/work/earning-mone..., and this link you posted, http://law.firm.in/, does not. The first is allowed, the second is not.

====

xbox
The second link you mentioned was provided as a useful form for exchanging information about lawyers in response to the

question "Does anyone know of a really good lawyer or journalist in Ireland, England or America?". I feel it was highly relevant and helpful - I am sorry that you have now deleted the comment because now others will not be able to decide whether it is helpful to them or not.

Why do you feel it is your responsibility to decide whether something is helpful or not? Is it not true that what might not be helpful to you may indeed be very helpful to someone else? Is this site about you consider to be helpful, or what the users of the site consider to be helpful? I would think it should be the latter. What do you think?

====

KT1
The owners of this site reserve that right.

====

xbox
what right?

====

KT1
Just curious, can you post a screenshot of what you see when you click the second link to my shoutbox?

====

xbox
why? can't you post screenshots?

====

xbox
and I'm also still curious what "right" you are talking about (and why?)

====

KT1
I am trying to answer your questions but if you are more interested in arguing than posting a screenshot of what YOU see (I know what I see)then this discussion is over.

====

xbox
well I know what I see too - and I assume (since we're talking about the same URL) that it's the same data. If you are in doubt, then maybe you should simply post a screenshot and I can confirm

that whether what you see is (more or less) equivalent to what I see.

I still don't understand what you meant with "right", but if you do not care to talkabout that either, then I can accept that, too. And I also have to leave in about half an hour, so if we can't figure this out soon, then maybe we'll just have to revisit any unresolved issues another time.

I am concernedabout the fact that you seem to place very little trust in the users of the site. Is this something I could post about, or would you react negatively to such a post?

====

KT1
Please do not make post "subject" lines in all caps.

====

xbox
LOL, ok - I wanted to do that as a way to put the topic to discussion.

:) nmw

====

KT1
As a tpoic it is fine. We don't like it for subject lines because the site would be a bit annoying to read.

====

xbox
I totally agree!

====

KT1
Post one more link to a site with no content - only a domain parking spot or list of links - and you will be banned.

====

KT1
I banned you because you persisted in posted your sites after being asked twice not to. You are not allowed to advertise on our sites as you agreed to in the Terms of Use. If you do it again, in any way, shape or form, you will be permanently banned.

====

xbox
I don't exactly understand what you mean - is linking to other sites that display advertisements not permitted? If that were the case, then you would basically be say that it is not permissible to link to 99% of the Internet (at least). To me, this sounds absurd.

====

(END OF TRANSCRIPT at date of this post)

worried_love_m

all you need is love

all you need is love

xbox

worried_love_m wrote:
all you need is love

please read the shout-trail exchange before responding.

thanks!

:) nmw

[quote worried_love_m]all you need is love[/quote]please read the shout-trail exchange before responding. thanks! :) nmw

changed the tags on this post: they were "Accept, question, Screenshot, data, link, form, Help, post, talk, Content" 2 days, 6 hours ago.

Clearing the Air

The follow text is copied from the shout-trail exchange between KT1 and myself. I would like to bring this out into the open for discussion. There may be some typos (sometimes I noticed space missing from the copy/paste activity) -- please feel free to edit and correct the typos.

I am eager to hear feedback from the help.com community!

Thanks for helping to clear the air!

 :) nmw

====

KT1
Please stop spamming posts with URLs to fill in the contact form

====

xbox
I don't understand - when people ask for help, links are often provided to sites that might be helpful.

Could you explain your reasoning a little more?

====

KT1
The sites you were linking are empty, thus not helpful, and we are getting complaints.

====

xbox
who is complaining? why don't they start helping and stop complaining? Isn't "help" what this site is supposed to be about?

====

KT1
Yes,this site is about help and if you have informational or news sites toadd to those topics in a contextual way, you are more than welcome topost tham. Posting undeveloped sites and advising users to contact youhas the appearance of a scam.

====

xbox
It seems to me that you have perhaps had bad experiences in the past that make you fearful of scammers. I do not consider myself to be a scammer,and I feel it is inappropriate for you to assume that I might be.

What could we do in order to abate your fears?

====

KT1
Stop posting links to sites with no content and asking people to fill out the form to contact you.

====

xbox
You seem to be avoiding my question:

1. there is content on those sites - including an invitation to become engaged and help

2. since the sites linked to are about helping WRT the topic in question, they are highly relevant

3.you appear to have not responded to my question about your fear ofscammers - what experiences have you had in the past, and how did youdeal with them (and how are these similar to the present situation)?

====

KT1
To answer your questions:

1. I have gone to the sites and there is no content.
2. There is no content on the sites, thus they are not relevant.
3. Scammers and spammers are banned.

====

xbox
we appear to have a difference of opinion WRT what qualifies as content.

Could you describe the basis for your judgement whether content exists or not?

Forme, no content means that the browser shows an error message that nocontent was found. On the other hand, if the site returns data and thebrowser displays these data, then I refer to the data returned as the"content".

Could you describe what you mean when you say"content"? (since by the "operational definition" of content that Igave above there obviously is content at the sites I have linked to; but still you maintain that there is "no content" - could you explain this?)

====

KT1
We will have to agree to disagree.

====

xbox
and could you also explain how your statement that "scammers and spammers are banned" is related to the present situation?

====

KT1
You asked what was done to scammers and spammers and I answered.

====

xbox
OK, so I guess that it really isn't relevant to the present situation after all.

AndI am sorry to say that I cannot agree or disagree with your remarksabout content since you are not explaining what you mean when yourefer to content (and therefore your views seem abstract rather thanconcrete). I guess I will just have to accept that you are unable todescribe what you mean (when you refer to "content") and therefore yourstatements about the presence or absence of content are invalidated).

Iam not unwilling to listen to you, but if you do not wish to explainyourself, then I will simply have to accept that, I guess.

If that's what you mean by "agree to disagree", then OK - I can accept that you do not wish to talk about it.

====

KT1
As an example, this link you posted has content of a helpful nature, http://works.in/com/work/earning-mone..., and this link you posted, http://law.firm.in/, does not. The first is allowed, the second is not.

====

xbox
The second link you mentioned was provided as a useful form for exchanginginformation about lawyers in response to the question "Does anyone know of a really good lawyer or journalist in Ireland, England or America?". I feel it was highly relevant and helpful - I am sorry that you have now deleted the comment because now others will not be able to decide whether it is helpful to them or not.

Why do you feel it is your responsibility to decide whether something is helpful or not? Is it not true that what might not be helpful to you may indeed be very helpful to someone else? Is this site about you consider to be helpful, or what the users of the site consider to be helpful? I would think it should be the latter. What do you think?

====

KT1
The owners of this site reserve that right.

====

xbox
what right?

====

KT1
Just curious, can you post a screenshot of what you see when you click the second link to my shoutbox?

====

xbox
why? can't you post screenshots?

====

xbox
and I'm also still curious what "right" you are talking about (and why?)

====

KT1
Iam trying to answer your questions but if you are more interested inarguing than posting a screenshot of what YOU see (I know what I see)then this discussion is over.

====

xbox
well I know what I see too - and I assume (since we're talking about thesame URL) that it's the same data. If you are in doubt, then maybe youshould simply post a screenshot and I can confirm that whether what yousee is (more or less) equivalent to what I see.

I still don'tunderstand what you meant with "right", but if you do not care to talkabout that either, then I can accept that, too. And I also have toleave in about half an hour, so if we can't figure this out soon, thenmaybe we'll just have to revisit any unresolved issues another time.

I am concernedabout the fact that you seem to place very little trust in the users ofthe site. Is this something I could post about, or would you reactnegatively to such a post?

====

KT1
Please do not make post "subject" lines in all caps.

====

xbox
LOL, ok - I wanted to do that as a way to put the topic to discussion.

:) nmw

====

KT1
As a tpoic it is fine. We don't like it for subject lines because the site would be a bit annoying to read.

====

xbox
I totally agree!

====

KT1
Post one more link to a site with no content - only a domain parking spot or list of links - and you will be banned.

====

KT1
Ibanned you because you persisted in posted your sites after being askedtwice not to. You are not allowed to advertise on our sites as youagreed to in the Terms of Use. If you do it again, in any way, shape or form, you will be permanently banned.

====

xbox
I don't exactly understand what you mean - is linking to other sites that display advertisements not permitted? If that were the case, then you would basically be say that it is not permissible to link to 99% of the Internet (at least). To me, this sounds absurd.

====

(END OF TRANSCRIPT at date of this post)

Dan TL

Dang that was a read. Well what now ? you both still going at it ? settle/resolve somthing ?

Dang that was a read. Well what now ? you both still going at it ? settle/resolve somthing ? xbox

RE: The second link you mentioned was provided as a useful form for exchanging information about lawyers in response to the question "Does anyone know of a really good lawyer or journalist in Ireland, England or America?"

see http://help.com/post/105811-does-anyo...

RE: The second link you mentioned was provided as a useful form for exchanging information about lawyers in response to the question "<b>Does anyone know of a really good lawyer or journalist in Ireland, England or America?</b>" see <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://help.com/post/105811-does-anyone-know-of-a-really-good">http://help.com/post/105811-does-anyone-know-of-a-really-good</a> xbox

Dan TL wrote:
Dang that was a read. Well what now ? you both still going at it ? settle/resolve somthing ?

Good question, Dan.

I guess the question we should attempt to resolve is: Should I be banned from this site if/when I link to any other site?

I am not interested in making the kinds of value judgments about the sites that I link to. If others do not support and/or disagree with my work, then I will probably be banned when I do whatever I feel is the right thing to do.

Does the help.com community want me and/or my activity on this site to be banned?

[quote Dan TL]Dang that was a read. Well what now ? you both still going at it ? settle/resolve somthing ?[/quote]Good question, Dan. I guess the question we should attempt to resolve is: <b>Should I be banned from this site if/when I link to <i>any</i> other site?</b> I am not interested in making the kinds of value judgments about the sites that I link to. If others do not support and/or disagree with my work, then I will probably be banned when I do whatever I feel is the right thing to do. <i>Does the help.com community want me and/or my activity on this site to be banned?</i> Dan TL

KT1 said that those links had "no content" does that mean literally their just blank ? I could understand where Kt1's comming from if you did that, but if its just stuff like we all link *zones off*....... i dont even know the real insight so im just going to say, from what i've seen i dont think you need to be banned, i havent seen you do anything wrong but kt1 is on here more then me and mod to monitor so ... idk hope things settle

KT1 said that those links had "no content" does that mean literally their just blank ? I could understand where Kt1's comming from if you did that, but if its just stuff like we all link *zones off*....... i dont even know the real insight so im just going to say, from what i've seen i dont think you need to be banned, i havent seen you do anything wrong but kt1 is on here more then me and mod to monitor so ... idk hope things settle xbox

The other link (the one which was permitted -- see http://help.com/post/105947-can-you-h... ) linked to a site that includes advertising ("sponsored links" -- much like on this site).

In contrast, the link which was not permitted contains no "sponsored links".

KT1's value judgments seem rather like personal whim than anything reliable. Besides, I feel the community is quite able to discern scammers and flag the posts appropriately (I have done this too).

Perhaps there should be no anonymity involved in flagging posts -- saying "someone" is complaining simply doesn't hold water.

The other link (the one which was permitted -- see <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://help.com/post/105947-can-you-help-me-figure-out-whether">http://help.com/post/105947-can-you-help-me-figure-out-whether</a> ) linked to a site that includes advertising ("sponsored links" -- much like on this site). In contrast, the link which was not permitted contains no "sponsored links". KT1's value judgments seem rather like personal whim than anything reliable. Besides, I feel the community is quite able to discern scammers and flag the posts appropriately (I have done this too). Perhaps there should be no anonymity involved in flagging posts -- saying "<i>someone</i>" is complaining simply doesn't hold water. xbox

Dan TL wrote:
KT1 said that those links had "no content" does that mean literally their just blank ? I could understand where Kt1's comming from if you did that, but if its just stuff like we all link *zones off*....... i dont even know the real insight so im just going to say, from what i've seen i dont think you need to be banned, i havent seen you do anything wrong but kt1 is on here more then me and mod to monitor so ... idk hope things settle

Things will definitely settle -- the question is: Will they settle with me or without me?

It's not like I'm unwilling to listen to reason. But I am unwilling (and also unable to accept such unreasonable value judgments.

[quote Dan TL]KT1 said that those links had "no content" does that mean literally their just blank ? I could understand where Kt1's comming from if you did that, but if its just stuff like we all link *zones off*....... i dont even know the real insight so im just going to say, from what i've seen i dont think you need to be banned, i havent seen you do anything wrong but kt1 is on here more then me and mod to monitor so ... idk hope things settle[/quote]Things will definitely settle -- the question is: Will they settle <b>with</b> me or <b>with<i>out</i></b> me? It's not like I'm <i>unwilling</i> to listen to reason. But I <i>am</i> <i>un</i>willing (and also <b><i>un</i>able</b> to accept such <i>un</i>reasonable value judgments. lil_bit_shi

sorry to see that you have had an issue... however.. i think i know what kt1 is talking about.... click this url.... http://law.firm.in/ if you notice... when you click it, there is no information on that site... its actually a site that is for sale... check it out... and get back to me..

sorry to see that you have had an issue... however.. i think i know what kt1 is talking about.... click this url.... <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://law.firm.in/">http://law.firm.in/</a> if you notice... when you click it, there is no information on that site... its actually a site that is for sale... check it out... and get back to me.. Eric, TUFKA

XBox, I'd say that posting a link to a site that is for sale is useless unless the person is asking for help finding a domain name.

XBox, I'd say that posting a link to a site that is for sale is useless unless the person is asking for help finding a domain name. xbox

Shi, that site is one my rather large portfolio of sites (what I refer to as high traffic targeted keyword domain names -- quite like the link I posted to support you [but which was also removed along with my post -- if I remember correctly]). So in that sense the issue affects both of us -- and likewise also the "multiple sclerosis" community, etc. If this community decides there should be no "helping each other" allowed here, then I see little sense in participating on this site -- that would almost seem like a scam: to build a site at "help.com" that prohibits helping each other.

On that site there is an invitation to participate in contributing information that is relevant to the concept "law firm in...". If you feel that there is not enough information there, then why not contribute something? Otherwise, it would be more appropriate for you to say "I don't care" than to make a value judgment as to whether the information which is there is sufficient or insufficient.

Am I right to assume that your opinion is more like "I don't care"?

Shi, that site is one my rather large portfolio of sites (what I refer to as high traffic targeted keyword domain names -- quite like the link I posted to support you [but which was also removed along with my post -- if I remember correctly]). So in that sense the issue affects <i>both of us</i> -- and likewise also the "multiple sclerosis" community, etc. If this community decides there should be no <b><i>helping</i> each other</b> allowed here, then I see little sense in participating on this site -- that would almost seem like a scam: to build a site at "help.com" that <i><b>prohibits</b> helping each other</i>. On that site there is an invitation to participate in contributing information that is relevant to the concept "law firm in...". If you feel that there is not enough information there, then why not contribute something? Otherwise, it would be more appropriate for you to say "<i>I don't care</i>" than to make a value judgment as to whether the information which <i><b>is</b> there</i> is sufficient or insufficient. Am I right to assume that your opinion is more like <b><i>I don't care</i></b>? Eric, TUFKA

XBox, that is simply not true. The domain name is for sale; the only invitation is to buy the domain name.

Even if the site you linked to did work as you claim, a link to a place where a poster could contribute his knowledge of finding a good lawyer does not help him find a good lawyer. An appropriate link would be to a site where others have contributed their knowledge on how to find a good lawyer, or even possibly a site with ads for lawyers.

XBox, that is simply not true. The domain name is for sale; the only invitation is to buy the domain name. Even if the site you linked to did work as you claim, a link to a place where a poster could contribute his knowledge of finding a good lawyer does not help him find a good lawyer. An appropriate link would be to a site where others have contributed their knowledge on how to find a good lawyer, or even possibly a site with ads for lawyers. lil_bit_shi

my attitude.. no.. i do care.. i dont want to see you get booted for one.. and i do care that you are trying to help others... im completely on your side here.. however.. when you click the link..http://law.firm.in/ there is nothing there hun... it says the following..

This space is available

... and cheap !!

Go to E-Z.name to
order it now!

and i think what kt1 was talking about is that this is not a site that is going to help anyone.. its to sell a site.. know what im talking about?

my attitude.. no.. i do care.. i dont want to see you get booted for one.. and i do care that you are trying to help others... im completely on your side here.. however.. when you click the link..<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://law.firm.in/">http://law.firm.in/</a> there is nothing there hun... it says the following.. <b> This space is available ... and cheap !! Go to E-Z.name to order it now!</b> and i think what kt1 was talking about is that this is not a site that is going to help anyone.. its to sell a site.. know what im talking about? xbox

Eric! wrote:
XBox, I'd say that posting a link to a site that is for sale is useless unless the person is asking for help finding a domain name.

xbox wrote:
RE: The second link you mentioned was provided as a useful form for exchanging information about lawyers in response to the question "Does anyone know of a really good lawyer or journalist in Ireland, England or America?"

see http://help.com/post/105811-does-anyo...

Eric, please take a look at the thread in which the link was posted. The thread was asking for information that this is relevant to the focus of the site in question --t's not like I posted a link to viagra spam or anything like that.

If you would like to contribute information, then please: do so!

But if you don't care, then that is your business, not mine!

(sorry, if I sound a little irritated, but accusing me of saying something that is untrue does ruffle my feathers a little bit.

ps: please note that the preview function takes several minutes to display my comments -- and that is the main reason that my responses are delayed.

[quote Eric!]XBox, I'd say that posting a link to a site that is for sale is useless unless the person is asking for help finding a domain name.[/quote][quote xbox]RE: The second link you mentioned was provided as a useful form for exchanging information about lawyers in response to the question "<b>Does anyone know of a really good lawyer or journalist in Ireland, England or America?</b>" see <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://help.com/post/105811-does-anyone-know-of-a-really-good">http://help.com/post/105811-does-anyone-know-of-a-really-good</a>[/quote]Eric, please take a look at the thread in which the link was posted. The thread was asking for information that this is relevant to the focus of the site in question -- it's not like I posted a link to viagra spam or anything like that. If you would like to contribute information, then please: do so! But if you don't care, then that is <b><i>your</i> business</b>, not mine! (sorry, if I sound a little irritated, but accusing me of saying something that is untrue <i>does</i> ruffle my feathers a little bit. ps: please note that the preview function takes several minutes to display my comments -- and that is the main reason that my responses are delayed. Eric, TUFKA

I did look at the thread, XBox. The thread was not asking for any information that that site in its current state could possibly have helped them obtain. The only way to view that site from your link was to already be in that poster's thread, where anyone with information that could be put on the site to help that person could have simply helped directly. Therefore, your link was useless.

I did look at the thread, XBox. The thread was not asking for any information that that site in its current state could possibly have helped them obtain. The only way to view that site from your link was to already be in that poster's thread, where anyone with information that could be put on the site to help that person could have simply helped directly. Therefore, your link was useless. xbox

lil_bit_shi wrote:
my attitude.. no.. i do care.. i dont want to see you get booted for one.. and i do care that you are trying to help others... im completely on your side here.. however.. when you click the link..http://law.firm.in/ there is nothing there hun... it says the following.. This space is available... and cheap !!Go to E-Z.name toorder it now!and i think what kt1 was talking about is that this is not a site that is going to help anyone.. its to sell a site.. know what im talking about?

"Cheap" does not equal "Free" -- cheap is cheap, and "there is no such thing as a free lunch".

Would you like to post something at that site? The site says: "This space is available... and cheap !!Go to E-Z.name to order it now!" -- and that is precisely what it means.

And thanks for caring!

:)

[quote lil_bit_shi]my attitude.. no.. i do care.. i dont want to see you get booted for one.. and i do care that you are trying to help others... im completely on your side here.. however.. when you click the link..<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://law.firm.in/">http://law.firm.in/</a> there is nothing there hun... it says the following..<b> This space is available... and cheap !!Go to E-Z.name toorder it now!</b>and i think what kt1 was talking about is that this is not a site that is going to help anyone.. its to sell a site.. know what im talking about?[/quote]"Cheap" does not equal "Free" -- cheap is cheap, and "there is no such thing as a free lunch". Would you like to post something at that site? The site says: "This space is available... and cheap !!Go to E-Z.name to order it now!" -- and that is precisely what it means. And <b>thanks for caring</b>! :) lil_bit_shi

i know... but what i think kt1 was getting at was... that is a spam due to selling something... not you persay.. but the site... it isnt really offering advise... just selling something... i think that is why he is having issue with it.

i know... but what i think kt1 was getting at was... that is a spam due to selling something... not you persay.. but the site... it isnt really offering advise... just selling something... i think that is why he is having issue with it. xbox

Eric! wrote:
I did look at the thread, XBox. The thread was not asking for any information that that site in its current state could possibly have helped them obtain. The only way to view that site from your link was to already be in that poster's thread, where anyone with information that could be put on the site to help that person could have simply helped directly. Therefore, your link was useless.

I disagree.

The person who posted that thread could have asked the very same question to the audience at "law firm in" (and/or "law firm in Ireland" and/or law firm in England and/or "law firm in America"). Like I said: it would have been cheap -- and there is no such thing as a free lunch.

[quote Eric!]I did look at the thread, XBox. The thread was not asking for any information that that site in its current state could possibly have helped them obtain. The only way to view that site from your link was to already be in that poster's thread, where anyone with information that could be put on the site to help that person could have simply helped directly. Therefore, your link was useless.[/quote]I disagree. The person who posted that thread could have asked the <i>very same question</i> to the audience at "law firm in" (and/or "law firm in Ireland" and/or "law firm in England" and/or "law firm in America"). Like I said: it would have been <b>cheap</b> -- and <i>there is no such thing as a free lunch</i>. xbox

lil_bit_shi wrote:
i know... but what i think kt1 was getting at was... that is a spam due to selling something... not you persay.. but the site... it isnt really offering advise... just selling something... i think that is why he is having issue with it.

Like I said to Eric: the site offers an opportunity to say something.

What KT1 is doing is prohibiting people from saying something.

:/ nmw

[quote lil_bit_shi]i know... but what i think kt1 was getting at was... that is a spam due to selling something... not you persay.. but the site... it isnt really offering advise... just selling something... i think that is why he is having issue with it.[/quote]Like I said to Eric: the site <i><b>offers an opportunity</b> to say something</i>. What KT1 is doing is <i><b>prohibiting</b> people from saying something</i>. :/ nmw Eric, TUFKA

In this case, however, there is a "free lunch". CNET is offering that poster a free lunch by letting them post their question here for free and letting the LARGE audience here help. Alternatively, they could indeed buy that domain name, possibly buy a server as well, and put the question up there; however, that would cost quite a bit of money compared to the free post here, and I can almost guarantee you it will reach a much smaller audience. Even the most basic economic analysis reveals that the link does not offer anything worthwhile to the poster of that thread.

In this case, however, there is a "free lunch". CNET is offering that poster a free lunch by letting them post their question here for free and letting the LARGE audience here help. Alternatively, they could indeed buy that domain name, possibly buy a server as well, and put the question up there; however, that would cost quite a bit of money compared to the free post here, and I can almost guarantee you it will reach a much smaller audience. Even the most basic economic analysis reveals that the link does not offer anything worthwhile to the poster of that thread. xbox

Eric! wrote:
In this case, however, there is a "free lunch". CNET is offering that poster a free lunch by letting them post their question here for free and letting the LARGE audience here help. Alternatively, they could indeed buy that domain name, possibly buy a server as well, and put the question up there; however, that would cost quite a bit of money compared to the free post here, and I can almost guarantee you it will reach a much smaller audience. Even the most basic economic analysis reveals that the link does not offer anything worthwhile to the poster of that thread.

Eric, I feel you do not understand the economics of online advertising -- at least not the way I do.

To say that anything is free is absurd! Do you water your lawn in the summer? Do you think that breathing the fumes from congested traffic is free? I don't: Everything has a price -- that price may be deemed "high" or "low", but nothing is ever free. Have you ever heard of global warming?!? That is the COST of decades of pollution. There may not have been cash involved, but it still hurts.

Likewise, when you (or somebody else) click(s) on one of the "sponsored links" on this site, it hurts someone -- maybe a dollar, maybe $10, maybe more.

Nothing is free.

[quote Eric!]In this case, however, there is a "free lunch". CNET is offering that poster a free lunch by letting them post their question here for free and letting the LARGE audience here help. Alternatively, they could indeed buy that domain name, possibly buy a server as well, and put the question up there; however, that would cost quite a bit of money compared to the free post here, and I can almost guarantee you it will reach a much smaller audience. Even the most basic economic analysis reveals that the link does not offer anything worthwhile to the poster of that thread.[/quote]Eric, I feel you do not understand the economics of online advertising #NAME? To say that <i>anything</i> is free is <i>absurd</i>! Do you water your lawn in the summer? Do you think that breathing the fumes from congested traffic is free? I don't: <b>Everything has a price</b> -- that price may be <i>deemed</i> "high" or "low", but <b><i>nothing</i></b> is ever free. <b><i>Have you ever heard of global warming?!?</i></b> That is the <b>COST</b> of decades of pollution. There may not have been cash involved, but it <i>still <b>hurts</b></i>. Likewise, when you (or somebody else) click(s) on one of the "sponsored links" on this site, it <i><b>hurts</b></i> someone -- maybe a dollar, maybe $10, maybe more. <i><b>Nothing is free</b></i>. Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 2 days, 4 hours ago (2 hours, 8 minutes after post)

I do not want to get into someones else's argument but I have seen another user go a lot longer on here and they post a link to their own site on a particular type of question and not always the correct solution.
No matter what the question is about and what it concerns they always post a link to their own web page.
I did wonder what the policy was on that sort of thing but now I know, its just a shame that the mods and admins do not investigate everybody equally. Wether you agree or disagree does not come in to it, its either wrong or not.

I have posted many links on this site and sometimes I was unsure if they were okay, in those instances I have flaged my own post to clarify them because this site is not my property and if the powers that run it see it as a breach then thats their right.

I am just finding it increasingly worrying that other stuff that is quite offensive seems to be deemed alright and a user gets banned for posting a couple of dodgy links (I use the term "dodgy" loosely as it is merely someone's perception, please do not be offended xbox).

As far as freedom of speach is concerned, I do not think there is any such thing.
People are told we have it in a western culture but its a lot on B/S, what you say is always going to be restricted depending what environment you find yourself in and in this case its this site rules and the people who are employed to monitor them.
In fact this post will probably be removed when America wakes up as people in authority have been named in it and thats normally rule number 1.

I think you may find yourself staring at another ban xbox, if so its been nice talking to you.

As you said we use the site for free but the links pay for it and we are the customers, not the people who need help as they have other concerns but mostly the helpers.
However it all comes back to who owns it and runs it and I am afraid they can do what they want with their own property. Thats why I see the site becoming more of a chat forum than help site, by allowing this to happen will please their sponsors more, more people more money(oops I will probably be banned for that)

I do not want to get into someones else's argument but I have seen another user go a lot longer on here and they post a link to their own site on a particular type of question and not always the correct solution. No matter what the question is about and what it concerns they always post a link to their own web page. I did wonder what the policy was on that sort of thing but now I know, its just a shame that the mods and admins do not investigate everybody equally. Wether you agree or disagree does not come in to it, its either wrong or not. I have posted many links on this site and sometimes I was unsure if they were okay, in those instances I have flaged my own post to clarify them because this site is not my property and if the powers that run it see it as a breach then thats their right. I am just finding it increasingly worrying that other stuff that is quite offensive seems to be deemed alright and a user gets banned for posting a couple of dodgy links (I use the term "dodgy" loosely as it is merely someone's perception, please do not be offended xbox). As far as freedom of speach is concerned, I do not think there is any such thing. People are told we have it in a western culture but its a lot on B/S, what you say is always going to be restricted depending what environment you find yourself in and in this case its this site rules and the people who are employed to monitor them. In fact this post will probably be removed when America wakes up as people in authority have been named in it and thats normally rule number 1. I think you may find yourself staring at another ban xbox, if so its been nice talking to you. As you said we use the site for free but the links pay for it and we are the customers, not the people who need help as they have other concerns but mostly the helpers. However it all comes back to who owns it and runs it and I am afraid they can do what they want with their own property. Thats why I see the site becoming more of a chat forum than help site, by allowing this to happen will please their sponsors more, more people more money(oops I will probably be banned for that) xbox

xbox wrote:
Likewise, when you (or somebody else) click(s) on one of the "sponsored links" on this site, it hurts someone -- maybe a dollar, maybe $10, maybe more.Nothing is free.

And BTW: even if you do not click on an advertisement, there is still a cost (this is known in that advertising industry as the cost of an impression --magine someone put a billboard right in front of your house, and every time you opened the door, the first thing you saw was that billboard. I don't think it is reasonable for you to say that there would be no "cost" to you, even though you didn't pay any money for it.

[quote xbox]Likewise, when you (or somebody else) click(s) on one of the sponsored links on this site, it <i><b>hurts</b></i> someone -- maybe a dollar, maybe $10, maybe more.<i><b>Nothing is free</b></i>.[/quote]And BTW: even if you do not click on an advertisement, there is still a cost (this is known in that advertising industry as the cost of an <b>impression</b> -- Imagine someone put a billboard right in front of your house, and every time you opened the door, the first thing you saw was that billboard. I don't think it is reasonable for you to say that there would be no "cost" to you, even though you didn't pay any money for it. xbox

Great post, OldFart -- send me an email! ;D

According to some accounts, Emerson visited Thoreau in jail and asked, "Henry, what are you doing in there?" Thoreau replied, "Waldo, the question is what are you doing out there?" Emerson was "out there" because he believed it was shortsighted to protest an isolated evil; society required an entire rebirth of spirituality.

Emerson missed the point of Thoreau's protest, which was not intended to reform society but was simply an act of conscience. If we do not distinguish right from wrong, Thoreau argued that we will eventually lose the capacity to make the distinction and become, instead, morally numb.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0503e.asp

Great post, OldFart -- send me an email! ;D <blockquote>According to some accounts, Emerson visited Thoreau in jail and asked, "Henry, what are you doing in there?" Thoreau replied, "Waldo, the question is what are you doing out there?" Emerson was "out there" because he believed it was shortsighted to protest an isolated evil; society required an entire rebirth of spirituality. Emerson missed the point of Thoreau's protest, which was not intended to reform society but was simply an act of conscience. If we do not distinguish right from wrong, Thoreau argued that we will eventually lose the capacity to make the distinction and become, instead, morally numb.</blockquote> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0503e.asp">http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0503e.asp</a> Eric, TUFKA

XBox, the cost to a user for posting on this site (assuming they already have an internet connection) is zero. They truly are getting a free lunch.

XBox, the cost to a user for posting on this site (assuming they already have an internet connection) is zero. They truly are getting a free lunch. xbox

Eric! wrote:
XBox, the cost to a user for posting on this site (assuming they already have an internet connection) is zero. They truly are getting a free lunch.

Does that mean I am allowed to post again? Are you an admin here?

[quote Eric!]XBox, the cost to a user for posting on this site (assuming they already have an internet connection) is zero. They truly are getting a free lunch.[/quote]Does that mean I am allowed to post again? Are you an admin here? Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 2 days, 3 hours ago (2 hours, 31 minutes after post)

I am afraid I do not give out my email address xbox but I am available on mysapce and facebook.
There is a link in my profile
(I may have just done a free advert for my own webpage there)

Anyway, I hope you get your answers as I have to go just now, and I leave you all with this thought,
"The only thing free here is the time we give and time is the only thing you can not get back, money owed can always be repaid, items borrowed can be returned but time is a precious gift that should never be under estimated"

I am afraid I do not give out my email address xbox but I am available on mysapce and facebook. There is a link in my profile (I may have just done a free advert for my own webpage there) Anyway, I hope you get your answers as I have to go just now, and I leave you all with this thought, <b>"The only thing free here is the time we give and time is the only thing you can not get back, money owed can always be repaid, items borrowed can be returned but time is a precious gift that should never be under estimated"</b> Eidos

xbox wrote:

Eric! wrote:
XBox, the cost to a user for posting on this site (assuming they already have an internet connection) is zero. They truly are getting a free lunch.

Does that mean I am allowed to post again? Are you an admin here?

i dont see why that is spamming
KTI is sometimes thickheaded
no offence

[quote xbox][quote Eric!]XBox, the cost to a user for posting on this site (assuming they already have an internet connection) is zero. They truly are getting a free lunch.[/quote]Does that mean I am allowed to post again? Are you an admin here?[/quote]i dont see why that is spamming KTI is sometimes thickheaded no offence xbox

Oldfart wrote:
I am afraid I do not give out my email address xbox but I am available on mysapce and facebook.There is a link in my profile (I may have just done a free advert for my own webpage there)Anyway, I hope you get your answers as I have to go just now, and I leave you all with this thought, "The only thing free here is the time we give and time is the only thing you can not get back, money owed can always be repaid, items borrowed can be returned but time is a precious gift that should never be under estimated"

you can see my email address by visiting my profile (as long as I am not banned)

:) nmw

[quote Oldfart]I am afraid I do not give out my email address xbox but I am available on mysapce and facebook.There is a link in my profile (I may have just done a free advert for my own webpage there)Anyway, I hope you get your answers as I have to go just now, and I leave you all with this thought, <b>"The only thing free here is the time we give and time is the only thing you can not get back, money owed can always be repaid, items borrowed can be returned but time is a precious gift that should never be under estimated"</b>[/quote]you can see <i>my</i> email address by visiting my profile (as long as I am not banned) :) nmw

KT1

For future reference to all, posting a shouttrail between users as a post is inappropriate and will result in the post being closed.

As stated in the shouttrail, linking to contextual, relevant personal sites is absolutely allowed. Linking to a personal site that is just a domain parking spot asking users to submit personal information is not.

For future reference to all, posting a shouttrail between users as a post is inappropriate and will result in the post being closed. As stated in the shouttrail, linking to contextual, relevant personal sites is absolutely allowed. Linking to a personal site that is just a domain parking spot asking users to submit personal information is not. Anonymous
2 days, 3 hours ago (3 hours, 11 minutes after post)

so you opened it
well good

so you opened it well good xbox

KT1 wrote:
For future reference to all, posting a shouttrail between users as a post is inappropriate and will result in the post being closed.

Perhaps you should note this in some sort of guidelines -- like whether it is permissible to share information on this website. As an example: Is it permissible to quote a remark in one thread and post it in another thread? Why are shoutboxes special? Is there something "top secret" about a shoutbox?

[quote KT1]For future reference to all, posting a shouttrail between users as a post is inappropriate and will result in the post being closed.[/quote]Perhaps you should note this in some sort of guidelines -- like whether it is permissible to share information on this website. As an example: Is it permissible to quote a remark in one thread and post it in another thread? Why are shoutboxes special? Is there something "top secret" about a shoutbox? KT1

It is inappropriate because it is usually done for negative purposes and the users in the shouts are not there to comment.

It is inappropriate because it is usually done for negative purposes and the users in the shouts are not there to comment. xbox

KT1 wrote:
It is inappropriate because it is usually done for negative purposes and the users in the shouts are not there to comment.

I was unaware that shouts are for negative purposes --s it a violation to use the shoutbox for non-negative purposes?

Also: would it be permissible to post information from a shoutbox/shouttrail if the other person is alerted?

If it is not permissible to quote information posted in a shoutbox/shouttrail, I will no longer use them -- so for future reference: please contact me in some other form (unless the rules change -- and if the rules change again, then please note the correction in this thread, so that I will be able to see it).

Thank you.

[quote KT1]It is inappropriate because it is usually done for negative purposes and the users in the shouts are not there to comment.[/quote]I was unaware that shouts are for negative purposes -- is it a violation to use the shoutbox for non-negative purposes? Also: would it be permissible to post information from a shoutbox/shouttrail if the other person is alerted? If it is not permissible to quote information posted in a shoutbox/shouttrail, I will no longer use them -- so <i>for future reference</i>: please contact me in some other form (unless the rules change -- and if the rules change again, then please note the correction in this thread, so that I will be able to see it). Thank you. KT1

Yes. No.

Yes. No. xbox

KT1 wrote:
Yes. No.

would you please clarify what you mean with these two words?

[quote KT1]Yes. No.[/quote]would you please clarify what you mean with these two words? KT1

I am answering your questions.

I am answering your questions. xbox

OK

Thank you for that very lucid clarification.

:) nmw

OK Thank you for that very lucid clarification. :) nmw KT1

Answering yes or no questions with yes or no is as clear as it gets.

Answering yes or no questions with yes or no is as clear as it gets. xbox

It's very cute the way you ban my account one minute, give a response, and then a couple minutes later unban my account again.

Perhaps that will help this thread from drifting off topic -- as I have been known to sometimes drift....

So the way I understand it now is that shoutboxes are now useless -- they are only for thugs to shout at each other in a negative manner. Have I understood that correctly?

At any rate, I feel a prohibition on quoting each other is something I might expect in a totalitarian state (or something like that) -- and since I am more accustomed to scholarly discussion, I will have no part in that.

Thank you again for you "as clear as it gets" clarification.

It's very cute the way you ban my account one minute, give a response, and then a couple minutes later unban my account again. Perhaps that will <i><b>help</b></i> this thread from drifting off topic -- as I have been known to sometimes drift.... So the way I understand it now is that shoutboxes are now useless -- they are only for thugs to shout at each other in a negative manner. Have I understood that correctly? At any rate, I feel a prohibition on quoting each other is something I might expect in a totalitarian state (or something like that) -- and since I am more accustomed to scholarly discussion, I will have no part in that. Thank you again for you "as clear as it gets" clarification. Anonymous
2 days, 2 hours ago (3 hours, 55 minutes after post)

xbox it over
dude chill down abit

xbox it over dude chill down abit Anonymous
2 days, 2 hours ago (3 hours, 56 minutes after post)

i agree with kti

i agree with kti xbox

Anonymous wrote:
i agree with kti

Good for you --s this a blanket statement, that also applies to all future statements that KT1 makes? Do you agree with KT1 about everything KT1 has ever said, or is there something in particular that you agree with KT1 about?

[quote Anonymous]i agree with kti[/quote]Good for you -- is this a blanket statement, that also applies to all future statements that KT1 makes? Do you agree with KT1 about <i>everything</i> KT1 has ever said, or is there something in particular that you agree with KT1 about? xbox

Judging from the lack of response from the above anonymous poster, I gather that he/she really doesn't really care all that much.

As long as KT1 is willing to keep this post open, I would greatly appreciate your responses.

If you do not respond, then I will take that to mean that you do note care about whether or not I will be banned from help.com if/when I ever do anything that KT1 doesn't like.

So far, I feel OldFart is the only person who cares enough to have voiced his opinion that he is at least concerned about the whimsical nature with which censorship is being carried out on this site (and yes, I agree with OldFart that freedom of speech does not exist -- since otherwise your local library would probably have playboy magazine on their shelves).

What I am asking you to do is to consider whether or not you care about my point of view. If so, and you want my point of view to be continued to be heard, then speak up now -- since it is otherwise quite likely that I will join the ranks of Henry David Thoreau.

:) nmw

0

0

0Judging from the lack of response from the above anonymous poster, I gather that he/she really doesn't really <i><b>care</b></i> all that much. As long as KT1 is willing to keep this post open, I would greatly <i><b>appreciate</b></i> your responses. If you do not respond, then I will take that to mean that you do note care about whether or not I will be banned from help.com if/when I ever do anything that KT1 doesn't like. So far, I feel OldFart is the only person who cares enough to have voiced his opinion that he is at least <i>concerned</i> about the whimsical nature with which censorship is being carried out on this site (and yes, I agree with OldFart that freedom of speech does not exist -- since otherwise your local library would probably have playboy magazine on their shelves). What I am asking you to do is to consider whether or not you care about <i><b>my<b><i> point of view. If so, and you want my point of view to be continued to be heard, then speak up now -- since it is otherwise quite likely that I will join the ranks of Henry David Thoreau. :) nmw [quote xbox] <blockquote>According to some accounts, Emerson visited Thoreau in jail and asked, "Henry, what are you doing in there?" Thoreau replied, "Waldo, the question is what are you doing out there?" Emerson was "out there" because he believed it was shortsighted to protest an isolated evil; society required an entire rebirth of spirituality. Emerson missed the point of Thoreau's protest, which was not intended to reform society but was simply an act of conscience. If we do not distinguish right from wrong, Thoreau argued that we will eventually lose the capacity to make the distinction and become, instead, morally numb.</blockquote> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0503e.asp">http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0503e.asp</a>[/quote]

Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 2 days ago (5 hours, 39 minutes after post)

While I may agree with you on the way censorship is performed on this site there is very little we can do about it.
It's not our site, it's not run by us and we do not get a say on how its controlled.
(unfortunantly "when in rome").

We could always leave but that is of no real concern to the people who staff the site so it would be an idle victory, I have seen quite a few long term users move on and for reasons not that far from what you state here. It does seem like a numbers game, they are prepared to loose dedicated helpers as a trade off for general chat. Even this post comes under chat and not helping.
It's no secret that you will gain more people from chat than just question and answer helping and that will increase revenue.
The site is becoming more and more of a replacement for the school kids blocked sites and they come on here to chat because they can not get on bebo,myspace,msn,facebook and so on.

I know you are angry xbox and others have posted queries such as yours but the site is simply not geared to handle this type of debate. The knowledge base and support is just not there for it.
I would like to see the site get back to what it was originally intended for, helping people who have problems, worries and advice on things they have no knowledge of.

I was not around at the time of this site's creation but I am sure it was never intended to be full of such trivial questions (myspace/begging/I'am bored/insult trading).

I am afraid I am in the `getting banned' catagory now as well, so you are not alone.

While I may agree with you on the way censorship is performed on this site there is very little we can do about it. It's not our site, it's not run by us and we do not get a say on how its controlled. (unfortunantly "when in rome"). We could always leave but that is of no real concern to the people who staff the site so it would be an idle victory, I have seen quite a few long term users move on and for reasons not that far from what you state here. It does seem like a numbers game, they are prepared to loose dedicated helpers as a trade off for general chat. Even this post comes under chat and not helping. It's no secret that you will gain more people from chat than just question and answer helping and that will increase revenue. The site is becoming more and more of a replacement for the school kids blocked sites and they come on here to chat because they can not get on bebo,myspace,msn,facebook and so on. I know you are angry xbox and others have posted queries such as yours but the site is simply not geared to handle this type of debate. The knowledge base and support is just not there for it. I would like to see the site get back to what it was originally intended for, helping people who have problems, worries and advice on things they have no knowledge of. I was not around at the time of this site's creation but I am sure it was never intended to be full of such trivial questions (myspace/begging/I'am bored/insult trading). I am afraid I am in the `getting banned' catagory now as well, so you are not alone. xbox

Oldfart wrote:
I am afraid I am in the `getting banned' catagory now as well, so you are not alone.

Thanks, Fart! ;D

So far, I count: Henry David Thoreau, You and Me.

Anyone else care to come out of the closet?

[quote Oldfart]I am afraid I am in the `getting banned' catagory now as well, so you are not alone.[/quote]Thanks, Fart! ;D So far, I count: Henry David Thoreau, You and Me. Anyone else care to come out of the closet? xbox

Oldfart wrote:
The site is becoming more and more of a replacement for the school kids blocked sites and they come on here to chat because they can not get on bebo,myspace,msn,facebook and so on.

Hmm --nteresting "business model"... -- did a little test: I clicked on the "Save Your Relationship" Sponsored Link above ( http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/... >> "landing page" = http://www.catchhimandkeephim.com/204... ).

The following is what I got (at some point in time, I expect that parents will begin to become concerned about the advice being offered at help.com -- so perhaps KT1 should thank me for raising such issues -- and/or thank you for explicating some of the more controversial points that I did not even consider before thinking twice about what you just said. I think the site management ought to be more ethically (or they may regret their apparent lack of conscience later).

But perhaps your a right: perhaps they'll just knock us off instead.

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[quote Oldfart]The site is becoming more and more of a replacement for the school kids blocked sites and they come on here to chat because they can not get on bebo,myspace,msn,facebook and so on.[/quote]Hmm -- interesting "business model"... -- I did a little test: I clicked on the "Save Your Relationship" <b>Sponsored Link</b> above ( <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/iclk?sa=l&ai=BfTm6TMtnR4vYNKjM4gG3m8SsCIuwnBq7w-n7A8CNtwGQkhQQAhgCIMbjtQYoAzgAUO-DhswHYJXSsYK8B6ABu9Pm_gOqAQxoZWxwLWNvbnRlbnSyAQhoZWxwLmNvbcgBAdoBLGh0dHA6Ly9oZWxwLmNvbS9wb3N0LzExODQ4Mi1jbGVhcmluZy10aGUtYWlygAIBqAMB&num=2&adurl=http://www.CatchHimAndKeepHim.com/20459/&client=ca-cnet-help-content">http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/iclk?sa=l&ai=BfTm6TMtnR4vYNKjM4gG3m8SsCIuwnBq7w-n7A8CNtwGQkhQQAhgCIMbjtQYoAzgAUO-DhswHYJXSsYK8B6ABu9Pm_gOqAQxoZWxwLWNvbnRlbnSyAQhoZWxwLmNvbcgBAdoBLGh0dHA6Ly9oZWxwLmNvbS9wb3N0LzExODQ4Mi1jbGVhcmluZy10aGUtYWlygAIBqAMB&num=2&adurl=http://www.CatchHimAndKeepHim.com/20459/&client=ca-cnet-help-content</a> >> "landing page" = <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.catchhimandkeephim.com/20459/?gclid=CJKIosz4sZACFQX5XgodD1uoGA">http://www.catchhimandkeephim.com/20459/?gclid=CJKIosz4sZACFQX5XgodD1uoGA</a> ). The following is what I got (at some point in time, I expect that parents will begin to become concerned about the advice being offered at help.com -- so perhaps KT1 should <i><b>thank</b></i> me for raising such issues -- and/or thank <i><b>you</b></i> for explicating some of the more controversial points that I did not even <i>consider</i> before thinking twice about what you just said. I think the site management ought to be more <b><i>ethically</i></b> (or they may regret their apparent <i>lack</i> of conscience later). But perhaps your a right: perhaps they'll just knock us off instead. ======= "You're About To Learn Secrets That Most Women Will Never Know About Meeting And Keeping Great Men..." Inside you'll learn... * What goes on inside a man's mind... and how attraction works for him. * How to "cheat-proof" your relationship... and why he might be tempted. * The ten fatal mistakes to avoid that most women make with men. * What to do if your man has a "wandering eye". * The differences in how men and women think about dating... and why most men want to keep you from being successful. * The seven secrets to communicating with a man that will create lasting love and affection. * The truth about men who aren't "emotionally available"... how to know if you've got one and what to do if you're dating one. * The five things women do that annoy men and kill intimacy. * The inside tips married women know about the tell-tale signs of a great guy. * And you'll also get a FREE trial to Christian Carter's exclusive Dating Advice For Women eLetter... Learn these secrets about men... To enter the site, use your first name and a valid email address then click "Free Instant Access!". (All information is 100% Confidential!) First Name: E-Mail: We take your privacy very seriously. You can read our entire privacy policy here. ©2001-2007 Catch Him Inc, All Rights Reserved. By entering, you agree to terms and conditions found here. By entering your email address you are also requesting and agreeing to subscribe to our free Dating Advice email newsletter. You must be 18 or older to enter. xbox

xbox wrote:
I think the site management ought to be more ethically

I meant: "ethically responsible".

And the "Save Your Relationship" ads by Google link is above the "Reply" box (which is my perspective as I am writing this -- but after I've posted this reply I guess it's "below" ;)

[quote xbox]I think the site management ought to be more <b><i>ethically</i></b> [/quote]I meant: "ethically responsible". And the "Save Your Relationship" ads by Google link is above the Reply box (which is my perspective as I am writing this -- but after I've posted this reply I guess it's "below" ;) Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 23 hours ago (6 hours, 27 minutes after post)

The difference between you and them is these people pay to have these adverts on this site after that its all numbers.

The more people here then the more they can charge for the advertising space.
The number crunchers only look at hits not quality, the more questions asked the more the site will show up on search engines and then the circle is complete.

There is no room for ethics in capitalism I'am afraid

I need to go again xbox but if we get banned look for me on the sites I mentioned previously in the mean time I will add you as a friend and setup the email.

Good luck, I will look in again later.

The difference between you and them is these people pay to have these adverts on this site after that its all numbers. The more people here then the more they can charge for the advertising space. The number crunchers only look at hits not quality, the more questions asked the more the site will show up on search engines and then the circle is complete. There is no room for ethics in capitalism I'am afraid I need to go again xbox but if we get banned look for me on the sites I mentioned previously in the mean time I will add you as a friend and setup the email. Good luck, I will look in again later. xbox

I've got your number, OldFart! ;D

Oldfart wrote:
Good luck, I will look in again later.

me too -- for sure!

Here's to hoping for the existence of caring people!

:) nmw

I've got <i>your</i> number, OldFart! ;D [quote Oldfart]Good luck, I will look in again later.[/quote]me too -- for sure! Here's to hoping for the existence of caring people! :) nmw Dragonlady

I do care, I don't think you should be banned from the site. I agree with oldfart. it dosn't matter what we think unless we run the site, and it dosn't matter if you were right or wrong. if you are to be banned, then there are many others that should aswell. but thats only my opinion

I do care, I don't think you should be banned from the site. I agree with oldfart. it dosn't matter what we think unless we run the site, and it dosn't matter if you were right or wrong. if you are to be banned, then there are many others that should aswell. but thats only my opinion })i({ ~LazyDaze

x, I think you are a great person but when you get a bee in your bonnet you don't let it rest.
You were warned, simple fact, you were given more warnings than what mot people would get in the same situation, it states in the rules what you can and can not post and also admins have a little room to judge on what they can ban etc.
KT1 has a tough job, dealing with this site is not the only thing she has to do and she is only doing what is required in her line of work.
I asked for you to be let back after you were banned and I think that they were fairly lenient on you by letting you back so quickly so please don't let me regret sticking up for you by carrying on and causeing trouble..... incase you are thinking of doing that :)

x, I think you are a great person but when you get a bee in your bonnet you don't let it rest. You were warned, simple fact, you were given more warnings than what mot people would get in the same situation, it states in the rules what you can and can not post and also admins have a little room to judge on what they can ban etc. KT1 has a tough job, dealing with this site is not the only thing she has to do and she is only doing what is required in her line of work. I asked for you to be let back after you were banned and I think that they were fairly lenient on you by letting you back so quickly so please don't let me regret sticking up for you by carrying on and causeing trouble..... incase you are thinking of doing that :) xbox

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:
x, I think you are a great person

Thanks for this Lazy --t's wonderful for you to say this :)

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:

but when you get a bee in your bonnet you don't let it rest.

I don't know what you mean with this -- want/need clear statements. Please say exactly what you mean, and don't beat around the bush -- this is too important to be wishy-washy in any way.

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:
You were warned, simple fact, you were given more warnings than what mot people would get in the same situation, it states in the rules what you can and can not post and also admins have a little room to judge on what they can ban etc.

Yes, I have meticulously studied the terms of service -- and I think they are vague enough to justify virtually anything (I think we've been at this point in a discussion before) -- however, I don't think the TOS are even very relevant: if I get banned for slippery-slope reasons and a large portion of the membership objects, then the managent is in a precarious position. Here's a good analogy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_parks

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:

KT1 has a tough job, dealing with this site is not the only thing she has to do and she is only doing what is required in her line of work.

This is precisely what I have been saying all along -- KT1 should back off and let the members get more involved in making the decisions (and BTW: promoting transparency would also go a long way to building trust -- from this point of view, "someone complained" is not a useful construct).

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:

I asked for you to be let back after you were banned and I think that they were fairly lenient on you by letting you back so quickly so please don't let me regret sticking up for you by carrying on and causeing trouble..... in case you are thinking of doing that :)

I am not thinking of causing trouble -- and I think you should know me better than that! ;D What I am trying to do is to:

1. clarify the issues

2. solve the problems

Maybe it might be neat to go "at it" the other way around. Here's what I mean: it almost sounds like I'm complaining. But if the issue is that there is some problem with me, how about if someone attempts to explain what my problem is (in a manner that I will be able to understand)?

I will say it again and again: I am ready and willing (and hopefully able) to listen to reason.

[quote })i({ ~LazyDaze]x, I think you are a great person[/quote]Thanks for this Lazy -- it's wonderful for you to say this :) [quote })i({ ~LazyDaze] but when you get a bee in your bonnet you don't let it rest.[/quote]I don't know what you mean with this -- I want/need clear statements. Please say exactly what you mean, and don't beat around the bush -- this is too important to be wishy-washy in any way. [quote })i({ ~LazyDaze] You were warned, simple fact, you were given more warnings than what mot people would get in the same situation, it states in the rules what you can and can not post and also admins have a little room to judge on what they can ban etc.[/quote]Yes, I have meticulously studied the terms of service -- and I think they are vague enough to justify virtually anything (I think we've been at this point in a discussion before) -- however, I don't think the TOS are even very relevant: if I get banned for slippery-slope reasons and a large portion of the membership objects, then the managent is in a precarious position. Here's a good analogy: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_parks">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_parks</a> [quote })i({ ~LazyDaze] KT1 has a tough job, dealing with this site is not the only thing she has to do and she is only doing what is required in her line of work.[/quote]This is precisely what I have been saying all along -- KT1 should back off and let the members get more involved in making the decisions (and BTW: promoting transparency would also go a long way to building trust -- from this point of view, "someone complained" is <i>not</i> a useful construct). [quote })i({ ~LazyDaze] I asked for you to be let back after you were banned and I think that they were fairly lenient on you by letting you back so quickly so please don't let me regret sticking up for you by carrying on and causeing trouble..... in case you are thinking of doing that :)[/quote]I am not thinking of causing trouble -- and I think you should know me better than that! ;D What I am trying to do is to: 1. clarify the issues 2. solve the problems Maybe it might be neat to go "at it" the other way around. Here's what I mean: it almost sounds like I'm complaining. But if the issue is that there is some problem with me, how about if someone attempts to explain what my problem is (in a manner that I will be able to understand)? I will say it again and again: I am ready and willing (and hopefully able) to listen to reason. Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 21 hours ago (9 hours, 10 minutes after post)

I see we are still both here, could you check your shout box.

I see we are still both here, could you check your shout box. xbox

I got your email, and I will simply assume that it's all explained in there.

Thanks, Fart! ;D

I got your email, and I will simply assume that it's all explained in there. Thanks, Fart! ;D Jade
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 20 hours ago (9 hours, 19 minutes after post)

This is one of the primary reasons I would not pay to be a member of this site!!! If you have an issue with a member of Help. take it up with them and only them. Don't air your laundry hoping to drum up support for your cause when it's nobody else's business.

Now if you have a specifc concern that would affect everyone - then cite that...not the entire shout box.

IE: (and not necessarily on point) if you are being banned due to a point raised by an admin that is not specifically address in the TOS. Get your answer from either that Admin or seek a mediation with another admin on the site to resolve the issue.

JMHO

This is one of the primary reasons I would not pay to be a member of this site!!! If you have an issue with a member of Help. take it up with them and only them. Don't air your laundry hoping to drum up support for your cause when it's nobody else's business. Now if you have a specifc concern that would affect everyone - then cite that...not the entire shout box. IE: (and not necessarily on point) if you are being banned due to a point raised by an admin that is not specifically address in the TOS. Get your answer from either that Admin or seek a mediation with another admin on the site to resolve the issue. JMHO xbox

Jade wrote:
This is one of the primary reasons I would not pay to be a member of this site!!! If you have an issue with a member of Help. take it up with them and only them. Don't air your laundry hoping to drum up support for your cause when it's nobody else's business.Now if you have a specifc concern that would affect everyone - then cite that...not the entire shout box.IE: (and not necessarily on point) if you are being banned due to a point raised by an admin that is not specifically address in the TOS. Get your answer from either that Admin or seek a mediation with another admin on the site to resolve the issue.JMHO

Jade, that may very well be the final solution -- perhaps I will simply be banned from this site.

If that doesn't bother you, then I can accept that -- because there may very well be insightful remarks from other members of this site (as long as they don't get banned, I guess)....

[quote Jade]This is one of the primary reasons I would not pay to be a member of this site!!! If you have an issue with a member of Help. take it up with them and only them. Don't air your laundry hoping to drum up support for your cause when it's nobody else's business.Now if you have a specifc concern that would affect everyone - then cite that...not the entire shout box.IE: (and not necessarily on point) if you are being banned due to a point raised by an admin that is not specifically address in the TOS. Get your answer from either that Admin or seek a mediation with another admin on the site to resolve the issue.JMHO[/quote]Jade, that may very well be the final solution -- perhaps I will simply be banned from this site. If that doesn't bother you, then I can accept that -- because there may very well be insightful remarks from other members of this site (as long as they don't get banned, I guess).... X-_-X
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 20 hours ago (9 hours, 50 minutes after post)

I think the site needs to use its ability to mark a post as "adult" more often instead of closing it or removing it completely, because thats what its really about, kids seeing content that isn't for them. I think the site would be a better place if voting power was given to the users, instead of posts being deleted on the basis of "because I said so". I'm really tired of this "do as I say not as I do" mentality because I have seen mods be very rude to users, but when a user is rude to a mod, or another, user they are swooped down upon and banned just like that.

I think the site needs to use its ability to mark a post as "adult" more often instead of closing it or removing it completely, because thats what its really about, kids seeing content that isn't for them. I think the site would be a better place if voting power was given to the users, instead of posts being deleted on the basis of "because I said so". I'm really tired of this "do as I say not as I do" mentality because I have seen mods be very rude to users, but when a user is rude to a mod, or another, user they are swooped down upon and banned just like that. Jade
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 20 hours ago (9 hours, 57 minutes after post)

If you run the risk of being banned - then you need to find support for your arguements within the TOS. It really doesn't matter how much support you have from the members. What matters is the violation and if the action to ban is appropriately supported by the TOS.

I have had my issues with other members and with the admins when I first got here...not anymore.

As for conjuring up support, it's like a school yard fight, many will watch, many don't want to join in, and those that do usually don't fully understand the issues at hand from both parties perspectives so uninformed decisions are risked. Some will choose to support their friend for friendship sake but it makes no difference if the rules were broken.

xbox - a properly handled argument is based on facts, supported by documentation and won on intergrity.

As for the admins and the mods - tough job, not everything will always be spelled out in the TOS exactly. Their job is to monitor the site for the good of all the users and consider the wide range of ages, personalities, and 'free radicals' I certainly don't envy them. I have seen some instances were users were banned and I disagreed and made my voice heard quite loudly actually. The admin then advised that the user was only temp banned but in his defense he held the confidence of the matter between him and the user. That to me is intergrity and my hat is still off to him regardless if I agreed with the banning or not.

I don't know the issues of why you are threatened to be banned...I don't want to know. What I care about is that if you are going to fight the fight, do it with dignity and fairness, and the site overall will be better for it in the end.

If you run the risk of being banned - then you need to find support for your arguements within the TOS. It really doesn't matter how much support you have from the members. What matters is the violation and if the action to ban is appropriately supported by the TOS. I have had my issues with other members and with the admins when I first got here...not anymore. As for conjuring up support, it's like a school yard fight, many will watch, many don't want to join in, and those that do usually don't fully understand the issues at hand from both parties perspectives so uninformed decisions are risked. Some will choose to support their friend for friendship sake but it makes no difference if the rules were broken. xbox - a properly handled argument is based on facts, supported by documentation and won on intergrity. As for the admins and the mods - tough job, not everything will always be spelled out in the TOS exactly. Their job is to monitor the site for the good of all the users and consider the wide range of ages, personalities, and 'free radicals' I certainly don't envy them. I have seen some instances were users were banned and I disagreed and made my voice heard quite loudly actually. The admin then advised that the user was only temp banned but in his defense he held the confidence of the matter between him and the user. That to me is intergrity and my hat is still off to him regardless if I agreed with the banning or not. I don't know the issues of why you are threatened to be banned...I don't want to know. What I care about is that if you are going to fight the fight, do it with dignity and fairness, and the site overall will be better for it in the end. xbox

Jade wrote:
If you run the risk of being banned - then you need to find support for your arguements within the TOS. It really doesn't matter how much support you have from the members. What matters is the violation and if the action to ban is appropriately supported by the TOS. I have had my issues with other members and with the admins when I first got here...not anymore. As for conjuring up support, it's like a school yard fight, many will watch, many don't want to join in, and those that do usually don't fully understand the issues at hand from both parties perspectives so uninformed decisions are risked. Some will choose to support their friend for friendship sake but it makes no difference if the rules were broken.xbox - a properly handled argument is based on facts, supported by documentation and won on intergrity. As for the admins and the mods - tough job, not everything will always be spelled out in the TOS exactly. Their job is to monitor the site for the good of all the users and consider the wide range of ages, personalities, and 'free radicals' I certainly don't envy them. I have seen some instances were users were banned and I disagreed and made my voice heard quite loudly actually. The admin then advised that the user was only temp banned but in his defense he held the confidence of the matter between him and the user. That to me is intergrity and my hat is still off to him regardless if I agreed with the banning or not. I don't know the issues of why you are threatened to be banned...I don't want to know. What I care about is that if you are going to fight the fight, do it with dignity and fairness, and the site overall will be better for it in the end.

Thanks for your remarks, Jade -- but I am not interested in "fighting". I would rather just leave than to fight. Aside from that, I feel this issues are addressed quite clearly in the post at the top, but perhaps it's only clear to people who work "in information" and/or "on the Internet" more/less full time.

Again thanks for your advice, but I simply do not feel it is legal matter or anything like that -- feel (much like OldFart and others) that the site only has value if the users "pay attention" to it (BTW: this phenomenon is indeed sometimes referred to as the "attention economy").

I acknowledge that you are trying to help, and I feel that is great!

Thanks!

:) nmw

[quote Jade]If you run the risk of being banned - then you need to find support for your arguements within the TOS. It really doesn't matter how much support you have from the members. What matters is the violation and if the action to ban is appropriately supported by the TOS. I have had my issues with other members and with the admins when I first got here...not anymore. As for conjuring up support, it's like a school yard fight, many will watch, many don't want to join in, and those that do usually don't fully understand the issues at hand from both parties perspectives so uninformed decisions are risked. Some will choose to support their friend for friendship sake but it makes no difference if the rules were broken.xbox - a properly handled argument is based on facts, supported by documentation and won on intergrity. As for the admins and the mods - tough job, not everything will always be spelled out in the TOS exactly. Their job is to monitor the site for the good of all the users and consider the wide range of ages, personalities, and 'free radicals' I certainly don't envy them. I have seen some instances were users were banned and I disagreed and made my voice heard quite loudly actually. The admin then advised that the user was only temp banned but in his defense he held the confidence of the matter between him and the user. That to me is intergrity and my hat is still off to him regardless if I agreed with the banning or not. I don't know the issues of why you are threatened to be banned...I don't want to know. What I care about is that if you are going to fight the fight, do it with dignity and fairness, and the site overall will be better for it in the end.[/quote]Thanks for your remarks, Jade -- but I am not interested in "fighting". I would rather just leave than to fight. Aside from that, I feel this issues are addressed quite clearly in the post at the top, but perhaps it's only clear to people who work "in information" and/or "on the Internet" more/less full time. Again thanks for your advice, but I simply do not feel it is legal matter or anything like that -- I feel (much like OldFart and others) that the site only has value if the users "pay attention" to it (BTW: this phenomenon is indeed sometimes referred to as the "attention economy"). I acknowledge that you are trying to help, and I feel that is great! Thanks! :) nmw Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 19 hours ago (11 hours, 7 minutes after post)

You both make good points and I agree with both of you to an extent but I have started to notice that there are some strange goings on around here.

There are certain users who a rude nearly on every post they make
(very little is done)

Others may get a bit stroppy and then find themsleves with a shoutbox full of admins and mods.
(sometimes to much is done)

However to do anything with dignity and fairness requires all sides to be playing by those rules and it simply is not like that here at the moment.
I have stayed out of most of these arguments and Xbox was never a really a friend until a couple of days ago, I was about to get involved with one of his posts because the issue was important to me and then I found out he had been banned.

Whatever he had done in such a short time I could not understand because I have seen people here post really outrageous stuff and some of it really personal and when I found out what it was I thought it a bit petty.

I know he was warned many times but others are giulty of the same crimes and nothing is done, not even a warning!

I fear I may be making my way on to the banned list as well as some of my shouts have been removed (no explanation given) but to be honest the way some of the users get treated it is nearly impossible to stay off that list.
There just has to be a level playing field or all of this, all of this good work helping people is a waste of time.

You both make good points and I agree with both of you to an extent but I have started to notice that there are some strange goings on around here. There are certain users who a rude nearly on every post they make (very little is done) Others may get a bit stroppy and then find themsleves with a shoutbox full of admins and mods. (sometimes to much is done) However to do anything with dignity and fairness requires all sides to be playing by those rules and it simply is not like that here at the moment. I have stayed out of most of these arguments and Xbox was never a really a friend until a couple of days ago, I was about to get involved with one of his posts because the issue was important to me and then I found out he had been banned. Whatever he had done in such a short time I could not understand because I have seen people here post really outrageous stuff and some of it really personal and when I found out what it was I thought it a bit petty. I know he was warned many times but others are giulty of the same crimes and nothing is done, not even a warning! I fear I may be making my way on to the banned list as well as some of my shouts have been removed (no explanation given) but to be honest the way some of the users get treated it is nearly impossible to stay off that list. There just has to be a level playing field or all of this, all of this good work helping people is a waste of time. xbox

Oldfart wrote:
Whatever he had done in such a short time I could not understand because I have seen people here post really outrageous stuff and some of it really personal and when I found out what it was I thought it a bit petty. I know he was warned many times but others are giulty of the same crimes and nothing is done, not even a warning!

I think I need to repeat myself: could somebody please explain to me what I have done that is wrong?

[quote Oldfart]Whatever he had done in such a short time I could not understand because I have seen people here post really outrageous stuff and some of it really personal and when I found out what it was I thought it a bit petty. I know he was warned many times but others are giulty of the same crimes and nothing is done, not even a warning![/quote]I think I need to repeat myself: could somebody please explain to me what I have done that is <i>wrong</i>? })i({ ~LazyDaze

x, the only person who can tell you that is the person who banned you.
I just don't want you to get banned for good, I know I could still talk to you via e-mail but still, it is nice to see your face so to speak :)

x, the only person who can tell you that is the person who banned you. I just don't want you to get banned for good, I know I could still talk to you via e-mail but still, it is nice to see your face so to speak :) Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 18 hours ago (12 hours, 1 minute after post)

xbox wrote:

Oldfart wrote:
Whatever he had done in such a short time I could not understand because I have seen people here post really outrageous stuff and some of it really personal and when I found out what it was I thought it a bit petty. I know he was warned many times but others are giulty of the same crimes and nothing is done, not even a warning!

I think I need to repeat myself: could somebody please explain to me what I have done that is wrong?

With respect to the point I am making it is only in reference to the TOS for the site.

You were warned many times about something that was deemed inappropriate (as I said I found it a bit petty), posting links to sites the admins did not agree with.

Essentially that is what you have done wrong in the first instance, although it's cleared up in this post I suppose posting shouts on the main page is a bit off but it is not mentioned in the TOS so I guess that is a bit vague.

It is not for me to judge you on this and I have stated my point and you know I agree but it will ultimatly lead to a ban, wether it is justified or not is irrelevant because if we try to do anything the ban will be extended to include ourselves.
I mean this post was closed and then re-opened, what message is that supposed to send other than confusion over their own TOS.
It sense it will be closed soon though because it is throwing up to many awkward questions.

[quote xbox][quote Oldfart]Whatever he had done in such a short time I could not understand because I have seen people here post really outrageous stuff and some of it really personal and when I found out what it was I thought it a bit petty. I know he was warned many times but others are giulty of the same crimes and nothing is done, not even a warning![/quote]I think I need to repeat myself: could somebody please explain to me what I have done that is <i>wrong</i>?[/quote]With respect to the point I am making it is only in reference to the TOS for the site. You were warned many times about something that was deemed inappropriate (as I said I found it a bit petty), posting links to sites the admins did not agree with. Essentially that is what you have done wrong in the first instance, although it's cleared up in this post I suppose posting shouts on the main page is a bit off but it is not mentioned in the TOS so I guess that is a bit vague. It is not for me to judge you on this and I have stated my point and you know I agree but it will ultimatly lead to a ban, wether it is justified or not is irrelevant because if we try to do anything the ban will be extended to include ourselves. I mean this post was closed and then re-opened, what message is that supposed to send other than confusion over their own TOS. It sense it will be closed soon though because it is throwing up to many awkward questions. xbox

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:
x, the only person who can tell you that is the person who banned you.
I just don't want you to get banned for good, I know I could still talk to you via e-mail but still, it is nice to see your face so to speak :)

Yes, that's lovely Lazy -- and somehow it's the sense I get reading between the lines, too. And in my mind I am indeed totally innocent -- and/but there is a caveat. When I recently tried out putting some "sponsored links" on a couple of my sites and saw what a negative impact they had on the community, I immediately pulled them off (I was also unhappy with them myself). And I have long known that these sponsored links are rather shady, which is one reason why I do not like that at all (there are other reasons, but those are more academic, having to do with information retrieval.

I am desperately trying to find better solutions. I find it abhorrent that these dubious links are treated like saints and I am treated like a sinner. IMHO the reverse would be far closer to reality.

But basically, my point is that I have great respect for this community, but I feel as though the site management were treating me like I am filth.

:(

[quote })i({ ~LazyDaze]x, the only person who can tell you that is the person who banned you. I just don't want you to get banned for good, I know I could still talk to you via e-mail but still, it is nice to see your face so to speak :)[/quote]Yes, that's lovely Lazy -- and somehow it's the sense I get reading between the lines, too. And in my mind I am indeed <i>totally</i> innocent -- and/but there is a caveat. When I recently tried out putting some "sponsored links" on a couple of my sites and saw what a negative impact they had on the community, I <i>immediately</i> pulled them off (I was also unhappy with them myself). And I have long known that these sponsored links are rather shady, which is one reason why I do not like that at all (there are other reasons, but those are more academic, having to do with information retrieval. I am desperately trying to find better solutions. I find it abhorrent that these dubious links are treated like saints and I am treated like a sinner. IMHO the reverse would be far closer to reality. But basically, my point is that I have great respect for this community, but I feel as though the site management were treating me like I am filth. :( Fizz

I personally do not understand all the policies of this website, such as why personal email addresses are blocked if someone makes a choice to give out their email address, but regardless of why, it is within the rights of the site admins and moderators to remove things as they see fit. Frankly, it is much better then some spam filled sites that I have visited and at least they try to maintain the site and keep order.

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with everything that is done by the admins and moderators, but again I will say that it is within their rights and if we disagree with the rules and policies of this website we are free to leave at anytime and go elsewhere.

Now it may offend you and I expect that it will sorry for that, but I have in the past noticed that some of the links that you have posted do not seem relevant to the post. Maybe it was an oversite on your part and not an intentional act, only you know that. But you pointed it out yourself, you don't get paid to post here and KT1, so basically whether you agree or disagree KT1 is just doing his/her job.

I personally do not understand all the policies of this website, such as why personal email addresses are blocked if someone makes a choice to give out their email address, but regardless of why, it is within the rights of the site admins and moderators to remove things as they see fit. Frankly, it is much better then some spam filled sites that I have visited and at least they try to maintain the site and keep order. I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with everything that is done by the admins and moderators, but again I will say that it is within their rights and if we disagree with the rules and policies of this website we are free to leave at anytime and go elsewhere. Now it may offend you and I expect that it will sorry for that, but I have in the past noticed that some of the links that you have posted do not seem relevant to the post. Maybe it was an oversite on your part and not an intentional act, only you know that. But you pointed it out yourself, you don't get paid to post here and KT1, so basically whether you agree or disagree KT1 is just doing his/her job. KT1

As simply as it can be stated, you cannot use our site to advertise or gather other people's personal information. Both your posts and a few shouts with others state that you were trying to get other people to visit your domain parking spaces in hopes they would buy them or they would visit them so you could make money. That is not and will not be allowed and if you persist, you will be banned.

No one is going to be banned for stating their opinion in a civil, professional manner. (Oldfart)

As simply as it can be stated, you cannot use our site to advertise or gather other people's personal information. Both your posts and a few shouts with others state that you were trying to get other people to visit your domain parking spaces in hopes they would buy them or they would visit them so you could make money. That is not and will not be allowed and if you persist, you will be banned. No one is going to be banned for stating their opinion in a civil, professional manner. (Oldfart) xbox

Oldfart wrote:
[quote xbox][quote Oldfart]With respect to the point I am making it is only in reference to the TOS for the site.You were warned many times about something that was deemed inappropriate (as I said I found it a bit petty), posting links to sites the admins did not agree with.

Right, I agree: it's more/less a value judgement... -- the value judgment of the admins. And in that respect (I'm going a little out on a limb here) this site is more about the admins than it is about us.

[quote Oldfart][quote xbox][quote Oldfart]With respect to the point I am making it is only in reference to the TOS for the site.You were warned many times about something that was deemed inappropriate (as I said I found it a bit petty), posting links to sites the admins did not agree with.[/quote]Right, I agree: it's more/less a value judgement... -- the value judgment of the admins. And in that respect (I'm going a little out on a limb here) this site is more about the admins than it is about us. xbox

KT1 wrote:
As simply as it can be stated, you cannot use our site to advertise or gather other people's personal information. Both your posts and a few shouts with others state that you were trying to get other people to visit your domain parking spaces in hopes they would buy them or they would visit them so you could make money. That is not and will not be allowed and if you persist, you will be banned.No one is going to be banned for stating their opinion in a civil, professional manner. (Oldfart)

I do not have any "domain parking" spaces -- do you even know what domain parking is?

[quote KT1]As simply as it can be stated, you cannot use our site to advertise or gather other people's personal information. Both your posts and a few shouts with others state that you were trying to get other people to visit your domain parking spaces in hopes they would buy them or they would visit them so you could make money. That is not and will not be allowed and if you persist, you will be banned.No one is going to be banned for stating their opinion in a civil, professional manner. (Oldfart)[/quote]I do not <i>have</i> any "domain parking" spaces -- do you even know what domain parking <i>is</i>? xbox

Fizz, I'll get back to your point -- but it really fills me with anger to hear such groundless accusations. And to me it seems that Oldfart is indeed 100% correct: the site management is only interested in people wasting their time here.

Fizz, I'll get back to your point -- but it really fills me with anger to hear such groundless accusations. And to me it seems that Oldfart is indeed 100% correct: the site management is only interested in people <i>wasting</i> their time here. })i({ ~LazyDaze

x, I am trying to keep up with this the best I can, belive me all this talk of domain this and that is killing my brain lol, but maybe the simple approach for me would be to ask this~ Is it al about the faxt you feel as though you have been ganged up on over something you feel srongly about and/or that you see no problem with?
Maybe if that is the case then we al have different ideas what is wrong or right, you may think that what you did was right but to others it would be wrong... (not being technical minded I have no idea what you did lol so don't shoot me for this)
So where in your eyes you have done nothing wrong, to KT1 you have done something unacceptable.

I think I got the idea from al of this that you were placeing links to a website that had adverts/sponsors on it that you wanted others to click so you could earn money from each visit~ is that correct or not?
If that is not right and you were not gaining money or anything like that then tell KT1...

I don't know what ese to say really, I don'twant to fan the fire by saying my opinions on all of this when I don't totally understand it but then I don't want to say nothing and see you getting banned over something that could have been saved.

x, I am trying to keep up with this the best I can, belive me all this talk of domain this and that is killing my brain lol, but maybe the simple approach for me would be to ask this~ Is it al about the faxt you feel as though you have been ganged up on over something you feel srongly about and/or that you see no problem with? Maybe if that is the case then we al have different ideas what is wrong or right, you may think that what you did was right but to others it would be wrong... (not being technical minded I have no idea what you did lol so don't shoot me for this) So where in your eyes you have done nothing wrong, to KT1 you have done something unacceptable. I think I got the idea from al of this that you were placeing links to a website that had adverts/sponsors on it that you wanted others to click so you could earn money from each visit~ is that correct or not? If that is not right and you were not gaining money or anything like that then tell KT1... I don't know what ese to say really, I don'twant to fan the fire by saying my opinions on all of this when I don't totally understand it but then I don't want to say nothing and see you getting banned over something that could have been saved. -Shizuko....Sophie-
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 17 hours ago (12 hours, 58 minutes after post)

KT1 is being very good with you Xbox....she does want to ban you and has reopend this post to allow you to get this isue off your chest and to make a point to other users.

A lot of users don't want you banned....please drop this and consider KT1's replys.

Let this post be the last of it....please.

KT1 is being very good with you Xbox....she does want to ban you and has reopend this post to allow you to get this isue off your chest and to make a point to other users. A lot of users don't want you banned....please drop this and consider KT1's replys. Let this post be the last of it....please. Jade
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 17 hours ago (13 hours after post)

KT1 is female??? ******! I hate when I make automatic presumptions!!!!

KT1 is female??? ******! I hate when I make automatic presumptions!!!! })i({ ~LazyDaze

LoL Jade, yeah she is female, although when I first came here I thought she was female and then I heard someone refer to her as Ken, so I thought ooopsie she is male I got it wrong, so off I went thinking she was male untill I got pointed back in th right direction again lol
So for now I think she is female :D

LoL Jade, yeah she is female, although when I first came here I thought she was female and then I heard someone refer to her as Ken, so I thought ooopsie she is male I got it wrong, so off I went thinking she was male untill I got pointed back in th right direction again lol So for now I think she is female :D -Shizuko....Sophie-
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 17 hours ago (13 hours, 10 minutes after post)

Some users think she is a robot.....

Some users think she is a robot..... Jade
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 17 hours ago (13 hours, 12 minutes after post)

Ok KT1 - you have to monitoring this post - please satisfy my curiosity???? :)

Ok KT1 - you have to monitoring this post - please satisfy my curiosity???? :) Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 17 hours ago (13 hours, 12 minutes after post)

KT1, The reason I thought I was treading on dodgy ground was more to do with the missing shouts from earlier, because of that I assumed it was only a matter of time.
Forgive me for thinking this but in the past I have seen peoples comments removed and then they eventually end up banned and the community is left asking why.
I realise that some people make an outstanding case for themselves but when it's totally out of the blue it can leave you wondering what's the point.

What I have said on this post has been tempered because I was unsure how many boxes I had ticked on the road to getting a ban and there lies the quandary, there does seem to be different lines to cross for different members.
Surely if the poster has a good track record or very few complaints then you could just close/ or take down the offending post. Then put a more constructive point in the closing message.

I did not want to say to much as I did not want to join the ever increasing numbers of people forced away from the site or banned but it certainly feels like I am being backed into a corner and the choices are being made for me.

This question will keep coming up time and time again because of the inconsistency in regards to the points raised. I am sorry folks if this leads to problems for me as I am not usually this vocal when the site has nothing to do with me but I have seen things posted on here that certainly touches on what a lawyer would state as slander never mind the legal implications of some of the other points made by Xbox.
Having a disclaimer does not make any less devasting for the person directly affected.

I have nothing to fear as I managed 38 years on this planet without help.com (finally posted my age) and if this issue gets me into trouble then at least I tried to make it better.

KT1, The reason I thought I was treading on dodgy ground was more to do with the missing shouts from earlier, because of that I assumed it was only a matter of time. Forgive me for thinking this but in the past I have seen peoples comments removed and then they eventually end up banned and the community is left asking why. I realise that some people make an outstanding case for themselves but when it's totally out of the blue it can leave you wondering what's the point. What I have said on this post has been tempered because I was unsure how many boxes I had ticked on the road to getting a ban and there lies the quandary, there does seem to be different lines to cross for different members. Surely if the poster has a good track record or very few complaints then you could just close/ or take down the offending post. Then put a more constructive point in the closing message. I did not want to say to much as I did not want to join the ever increasing numbers of people forced away from the site or banned but it certainly feels like I am being backed into a corner and the choices are being made for me. This question will keep coming up time and time again because of the inconsistency in regards to the points raised. I am sorry folks if this leads to problems for me as I am not usually this vocal when the site has nothing to do with me but I have seen things posted on here that certainly touches on what a lawyer would state as slander never mind the legal implications of some of the other points made by Xbox. Having a disclaimer does not make any less devasting for the person directly affected. I have nothing to fear as I managed 38 years on this planet without help.com (finally posted my age) and if this issue gets me into trouble then at least I tried to make it better. Fizz

xbox wrote:
Fizz, I'll get back to your point -- but it really fills me with anger to hear such groundless accusations.

I'm waiting for you to get back to my point, but I hope that you take the time to notice that I did not accuse you of anything.

I simply stated an observation that I had previously made and I also gave and still give you the benefit of the doubt regarding the seemingly irrelevant links.

You opened this up for discussion and invited me to this post, I certainly would hate to think that you are the type that would get mad because someone doesn't completely share your viewpoint.

I also hope that this difference of opinion does not damage our friendship beyond repair, but that is entirely up to you.

[quote xbox]Fizz, I'll get back to your point -- but it really fills me with anger to hear such groundless accusations.[/quote]I'm waiting for you to get back to my point, but I hope that you take the time to notice that I did not accuse you of anything. I simply stated an observation that I had previously made and I also gave and still give you the benefit of the doubt regarding the seemingly irrelevant links. You opened this up for discussion and invited me to this post, I certainly would hate to think that you are the type that would get mad because someone doesn't completely share your viewpoint. I also hope that this difference of opinion does not damage our friendship beyond repair, but that is entirely up to you. slimline2

old fart ad another 30 then you reached slim ,young fart to me,anyway it is the owners of this site what have the rights to fire and hire what is and was the quarrel all about ? referrals to certain other sites are advertising though the owners look at this as a loss understandable i have been warned to because of personal accusations but rules are rules sometimes slim has to tape his mouth i like this side you get to know people there problems there wishes if xbox apologises nicely maybe the adm. is kind enough to join us again personally i think he was a good helper,lets see and wait.....

old fart ad another 30 then you reached slim ,young fart to me,anyway it is the owners of this site what have the rights to fire and hire what is and was the quarrel all about ? referrals to certain other sites are advertising though the owners look at this as a loss understandable i have been warned to because of personal accusations but rules are rules sometimes slim has to tape his mouth i like this side you get to know people there problems there wishes if xbox apologises nicely maybe the adm. is kind enough to join us again personally i think he was a good helper,lets see and wait..... xbox

Sorry, folks -- had just got a call on the phone that was a little urgent. It's all OK, but that's why I haven't responded (haven't even read Fizz's first comment yet) -- so let me get back to it! :)

Sorry, folks -- I had just got a call on the phone that was a little urgent. It's all OK, but that's why I haven't responded (haven't even read Fizz's first comment yet) -- so let me get back to it! :) Fizz

Perfectly fine, surely everyone understands that things in the real world come first.

Perfectly fine, surely everyone understands that things in the real world come first. xbox

(I also had to send out an email real quick ;)

Fizz wrote:
I personally do not understand all the policies of this website, such as why personal email addresses are blocked if someone makes a choice to give out their email address, but regardless of why, it is within the rights of the site admins and moderators to remove things as they see fit. Frankly, it is much better then some spam filled sites that I have visited and at least they try to maintain the site and keep order.I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with everything that is done by the admins and moderators, but again I will say that it is within their rights and if we disagree with the rules and policies of this website we are free to leave at anytime and go elsewhere.Now it may offend you and I expect that it will sorry for that, but I have in the past noticed that some of the links that you have posted do not seem relevant to the post. Maybe it was an oversite on your part and not an intentional act, only you know that. But you pointed it out yourself, you don't get paid to post here and KT1, so basically whether you agree or disagree KT1 is just doing his/her job.

Yes this is a very good point -- and I agree. And I am not questioning that the idea of site management per se. My point is more one of "how to work together" ("collaborate") instead of fighting.

And I also do not expect that everything I ever do is 100% correct -- and I hope people tell me when what I have done is unsatisfactory or even just how I could do this or that better. I think that is what "helping" each other is all about: improvement, fixing things, making things suit the intended purpose. And so if it is really important to find a law firm in england, I think my offering that avenue to create a page for the purpose of finding a law firm in England is not really all that bad. Would it be bad if I earned money from it? I don't know. I don't think so --s earning money a bad thing?

(I also had to send out an email real quick ;) [quote Fizz]I personally do not understand all the policies of this website, such as why personal email addresses are blocked if someone makes a choice to give out their email address, but regardless of why, it is within the rights of the site admins and moderators to remove things as they see fit. Frankly, it is much better then some spam filled sites that I have visited and at least they try to maintain the site and keep order.I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with everything that is done by the admins and moderators, but again I will say that it is within their rights and if we disagree with the rules and policies of this website we are free to leave at anytime and go elsewhere.Now it may offend you and I expect that it will sorry for that, but I have in the past noticed that some of the links that you have posted do not seem relevant to the post. Maybe it was an oversite on your part and not an intentional act, only you know that. But you pointed it out yourself, you don't get paid to post here and KT1, so basically whether you agree or disagree KT1 is just doing his/her job.[/quote]Yes this is a very good point -- and I agree. And I am not questioning that the idea of site management per se. My point is more one of "how to work together" ("collaborate") instead of fighting. And I also do not expect that everything I ever do is 100% correct -- and I hope people tell me when what I have done is unsatisfactory or even just how I could do this or that better. I think that is what helping each other is all about: improvement, fixing things, making things suit the intended purpose. And so if it is really important to find a law firm in england, I think my offering that avenue to create a page for the purpose of finding a law firm in England is not really all that bad. Would it be bad if I earned money from it? I don't know. I don't think so -- is earning money a bad thing? xbox

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:
x, I am trying to keep up with this the best I can, belive me all this talk of domain this and that is killing my brain lol, but maybe the simple approach for me would be to ask this~ Is it al about the faxt you feel as though you have been ganged up on over something you feel srongly about and/or that you see no problem with?Maybe if that is the case then we al have different ideas what is wrong or right, you may think that what you did was right but to others it would be wrong... (not being technical minded I have no idea what you did lol so don't shoot me for this)So where in your eyes you have done nothing wrong, to KT1 you have done something unacceptable.I think I got the idea from al of this that you were placeing links to a website that had adverts/sponsors on it that you wanted others to click so you could earn money from each visit~ is that correct or not?If that is not right and you were not gaining money or anything like that then tell KT1...I don't know what ese to say really, I don'twant to fan the fire by saying my opinions on all of this when I don't totally understand it but then I don't want to say nothing and see you getting banned over something that could have been saved.

Yes, that may have put gasoline onto the fire, so to speak. It is true that I asked for feedback in a different thread about how people feel about such sponsored links -- because I yet again went and tried to place some on a page (I have tried this before, but have never been happy with the results. This time I wanted to try something that people might be more prone to click on then simply text, but that was obviously not right either. And I learned alot from the feedback I got (and I tried to fix that problem ASAP -- hmm, maybe I forgot to go back and say thanks! for the feedback ;)

Perhaps, Lazy, you've put your finger on a very significant point -- and that is that mabe it is simply differing perspective (I think maybe we've touched on a similar topic sometime before?): whereas the traditional publishing methods have been very much about a "publisher" creating something that a "consumer" buys, the internet has changed that dynamic quite significantly. For example, here on this site it is quite hard to identify who might be the "publisher(s)" and/or the "consumer(s)". From my ("web 2.0?) perspective, websites are more and more becoming forums for exchanging information about a topic. As such, these forums noremally have a code of conduct for interaction, and I feel that is also the case here. And/But yes, I do feel violated if/when a value judgment is being made and "imposed" upon me. And/But like Oldfart says, it seems like the only option that is available is "take it or leave it".

But I don't think that way.

If I unhappy about something I will not bottle it up, I will talk about it and try to find a solution that creates a happier state. I may not be a polished diplomat, but I nonetheless feel that talking about problems and trying to find solutions is better than the rule of absolute power. And this method of interaction is definitely a different perspective then unidirectional publishing.

Very good point, Lazy!

:) nmw

[quote })i({ ~LazyDaze]x, I am trying to keep up with this the best I can, belive me all this talk of domain this and that is killing my brain lol, but maybe the simple approach for me would be to ask this~ Is it al about the faxt you feel as though you have been ganged up on over something you feel srongly about and/or that you see no problem with?Maybe if that is the case then we al have different ideas what is wrong or right, you may think that what you did was right but to others it would be wrong... (not being technical minded I have no idea what you did lol so don't shoot me for this)So where in your eyes you have done nothing wrong, to KT1 you have done something unacceptable.I think I got the idea from al of this that you were placeing links to a website that had adverts/sponsors on it that you wanted others to click so you could earn money from each visit~ is that correct or not?If that is not right and you were not gaining money or anything like that then tell KT1...I don't know what ese to say really, I don'twant to fan the fire by saying my opinions on all of this when I don't totally understand it but then I don't want to say nothing and see you getting banned over something that could have been saved.[/quote]Yes, that may have put gasoline onto the fire, so to speak. It is true that I asked for feedback in a different thread about how people feel about such sponsored links -- because I yet again went and tried to place some on a page (I have tried this before, but have <i>never</i> been happy with the results. This time I wanted to try something that people might be more prone to click on then simply text, but that was obviously not right either. And I learned alot from the feedback I got (and I tried to fix that problem ASAP -- hmm, maybe I forgot to go back and say "thanks!" for the feedback ;) Perhaps, Lazy, you've put your finger on a very significant point -- and that is that mabe it is simply differing perspective (I think maybe we've touched on a similar topic sometime before?): whereas the traditional publishing methods have been very much about a "publisher" creating something that a "consumer" buys, the internet has changed that dynamic quite significantly. For example, here on this site it is quite hard to identify who might be the "publisher(s)" and/or the consumer(s). From my ("web 2.0") perspective, websites are more and more becoming forums for exchanging information about a topic. As such, these forums noremally have a code of conduct for interaction, and I feel that is also the case here. And/But yes, I do feel violated if/when a value judgment is being made and "imposed" upon me. And/But like Oldfart says, it <i>seems</i> like the only option that is available is "take it or leave it". But I don't think that way. If I unhappy about something I will not bottle it up, I will talk about it and try to find a solution that creates a happier state. I may not be a "polished" diplomat, but I nonetheless feel that talking about problems and trying to find solutions is better than the rule of absolute power. And this method of <i>interaction</i> is definitely a different perspective then unidirectional publishing. Very good point, Lazy! :) nmw })i({ ~LazyDaze

woo x, you lost me on your second paragraph, I have no idea what you were talking about and I will not claim to understand just to ease discusion, I read it all though :)
And I see it ended with good point, so I hope i helped a little even if I didn't understand 80% of that reply....
I think I will leave this post now because, really, it's a greater amount that I don't understand of it....

So, yeah, umm, Goodluck :)

(P.S, just to add another log on the fire I fanned, I think that you not useing shouts to make a point could be a little ummm childish? {sorry} I just like shouts even if they are not private they still feel more connected than an open space of a post, so you not shouting is only you and your friends looseing out, e.g I am one of them )

woo x, you lost me on your second paragraph, I have no idea what you were talking about and I will not claim to understand just to ease discusion, I read it all though :) And I see it ended with good point, so I hope i helped a little even if I didn't understand 80% of that reply.... I think I will leave this post now because, really, it's a greater amount that I don't understand of it.... So, yeah, umm, Goodluck :) (P.S, just to add another log on the fire I fanned, I think that you not useing shouts to make a point could be a little ummm childish? {sorry} I just like shouts even if they are not private they still feel more connected than an open space of a post, so you not shouting is only you and your friends looseing out, e.g I am one of them ) xbox

-Shizuko....Sophie- wrote:
KT1 is being very good with you Xbox....she does want to ban you and has reopend this post to allow you to get this isue off your chest and to make a point to other users.A lot of users don't want you banned....please drop this and consider KT1's replys.Let this post be the last of it....please.

Well, I might be able to let some things be, but so could KT1 (i.e., if she indeed finds that the members of this site find nothing wrong with what I am doing). On the contrary, if there is something wrong with what I am doing, then I definitely want to know about it so that I can correct it (this is the interaction I was just talking about in reply to Lazy's post).

Please drop X (without specifying what I am supposed to stop) seems simply stifling -- and I have no interest in being stifled. I would much rather create happiness. Life is not about stopping, it's about starting -- like lazy "smiled" recently: "constant change is here to stay"! ;D

[quote -Shizuko....Sophie-]KT1 is being very good with you Xbox....she does want to ban you and has reopend this post to allow you to get this isue off your chest and to make a point to other users.A lot of users don't want you banned....please drop this and consider KT1's replys.Let this post be the last of it....please.[/quote]Well, I might be able to let some things be, but so could KT1 (i.e., if she indeed finds that the members of this site find nothing wrong with what I am doing). On the contrary, if there is something wrong with what I am doing, then I definitely want to know about it so that I can correct it (this is the "interaction" I was just talking about in reply to Lazy's post). Please drop X (without specifying what I am supposed to stop) seems simply stifling -- and I have no interest in being stifled. I would much rather create happiness. Life is not about stopping, it's about starting -- like lazy "smiled" recently: "constant change is here to stay"! ;D xbox

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:
woo x, you lost me on your second paragraph, I have no idea what you were talking about and I will not claim to understand just to ease discusion, I read it all though :)

OMG, I read it again myself -- and even I had trouble understanding it! If/when anything changes on this site, maybe it could include the ability to edit posts (and a revisions history would be the "cherry on top" ;)

[quote })i({ ~LazyDaze]woo x, you lost me on your second paragraph, I have no idea what you were talking about and I will not claim to understand just to ease discusion, I read it all though :)[/quote]OMG, I read it again myself -- and even I had trouble understanding it! If/when anything changes on this site, maybe it could include the ability to edit posts (and a revisions history would be the "cherry on top" ;) xbox

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:
childish?

I AM NOT CHILDISH! ;D

No, I agree -- from the point of functionality I also find it to be a really cool feature. Perhaps I will "wait and see" if anything changes in the guidelines and/or TOS (specifically about the shoutbox).

And I do acknowledge not being happy about posting the shout trail without asking permission -- but KT1 also never asked permission to ban my account! ;P

[quote })i({ ~LazyDaze]childish?[/quote]I AM NOT CHILDISH! ;D No, I agree -- from the point of functionality I also find it to be a really cool feature. Perhaps I will "wait and see" if anything changes in the guidelines and/or TOS (specifically about the shoutbox). And I do acknowledge not being happy about posting the shout trail without asking permission -- but KT1 also never asked permission to ban my account! ;P })i({ ~LazyDaze

LMAO x, what do you think will happen with you not useing your shout box?
Can I tell you!
A few friends getting worried that you are not talking to them maybe but other than that nothing, if you choose to not use your shouts it will not crash the system or anything quite so wounderous as that and I doubt anyone other than a few handfull of friends would notice (not trying to be rude, just stateing fact)

KT1 did kind of ask permission to ban you in a sence, I mean what do you think the warnings were al about? And I do wounder why you didn't ask her if you could copy the shout trail because you have copied mine in the past after you asking me and me saying yes, so it's not as if you didn't have the common sence to know that posting shouts without asking was rude, so my question is this, did you do that because you knew her answer would be no and also because you knew it would spark a new dissagreement?

LMAO x, what do you think will happen with you not useing your shout box? Can I tell you! A few friends getting worried that you are not talking to them maybe but other than that nothing, if you choose to not use your shouts it will not crash the system or anything quite so wounderous as that and I doubt anyone other than a few handfull of friends would notice (not trying to be rude, just stateing fact) KT1 did kind of ask permission to ban you in a sence, I mean what do you think the warnings were al about? And I do wounder why you didn't ask her if you could copy the shout trail because you have copied mine in the past after you asking me and me saying yes, so it's not as if you didn't have the common sence to know that posting shouts without asking was rude, so my question is this, did you do that because you knew her answer would be no and also because you knew it would spark a new dissagreement? xbox

No, Lazy -- hmmm... perhaps it's difficult for you to see what it feels like to be banned.

How would you feel if KT1 said that it were not permitted to make funny posts?

No, Lazy -- hmmm... perhaps it's difficult for you to see what it feels like to be banned. How would you feel if KT1 said that it were not permitted to make funny posts? })i({ ~LazyDaze

Yes, it is difficult for me to understand, to understand it I would have to of been banned, but thankfully I have not yet, But I can only imagine how annying it must be and more so when you feel that you did nothing wrong, I am not being bias I can just see both sides.

And if KT1 said that posting things like my many funny posts was banned, I would first ask why,and why now but I would not go right ahead and post another one right after being told not too, I would most likely not post them.... Sorry if thats not the answer you were looking for, but that honestly what I would do.

Yes, it is difficult for me to understand, to understand it I would have to of been banned, but thankfully I have not yet, But I can only imagine how annying it must be and more so when you feel that you did nothing wrong, I am not being bias I can just see both sides. And if KT1 said that posting things like my many funny posts was banned, I would first ask why,and why now but I would not go right ahead and post another one right after being told not too, I would most likely not post them.... Sorry if thats not the answer you were looking for, but that honestly what I would do. xbox

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:
And if KT1 said that posting things like my many funny posts was banned, I would first ask why,and why now but I would not go right ahead and post another one right after being told not too, I would most likely not post them.... Sorry if thats not the answer you were looking for, but that honestly what I would do.

Personally, I would first of all ask what might qualify as a "funny" post (or not). And the result of the discussion (so far) has been: whatever post KT1 thinks is funny would be grounds for banning the user, simply because KT1 thought so.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but that is the way I see it (and I surmise a couple others see it that way, too -- even if they are intimidated, I have a hunch they do feel that way).

[quote })i({ ~LazyDaze]And if KT1 said that posting things like my many funny posts was banned, I would first ask why,and why now but I would not go right ahead and post another one right after being told not too, I would most likely not post them.... Sorry if thats not the answer you were looking for, but that honestly what I would do.[/quote]Personally, I would first of all ask what might qualify as a "funny" post (or not). And the result of the discussion (so far) has been: whatever post KT1 thinks is funny would be grounds for banning the user, simply because KT1 thought so. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but that is the way I see it (and I surmise a couple others see it that way, too -- even if they are <i>intimidated</i>, I have a hunch they do feel that way). Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 14 hours ago (15 hours, 28 minutes after post)

I know some of you arrived late to this post and I see a lot of heat has left the argument but that is due to the whole post becoming one sided.

There has been many questions put forward but I still have no clarity, some people pick up near instant bans (a few warnings does not compare to 4 or 5 complaints a week) while others seem untouchable.

I have not been banned, I have no idea what it would feel like.

I have had one warning, this was born out of anothers inability to spot sarcasam. I apologised anyway because it was easier than explaining.

While there are people who come on here night after night and throw insults about on a help site, it would seem irony is lost on the very same people.
I am dissappointed help.com I really thought something would have come out of this that may have helped improve the site and maybe cut out some of the rot.
I see now you have decided to leave this post to talk itself out and let it dissapper into the abyss.

I fear I may be right in the suspicions I put forward earlier on this post and the site is slipping towards another chat room rather than help site.

I know some of you arrived late to this post and I see a lot of heat has left the argument but that is due to the whole post becoming one sided. There has been many questions put forward but I still have no clarity, some people pick up near instant bans (a few warnings does not compare to 4 or 5 complaints a week) while others seem untouchable. I have not been banned, I have no idea what it would feel like. I have had one warning, this was born out of anothers inability to spot sarcasam. I apologised anyway because it was easier than explaining. While there are people who come on here night after night and throw insults about on a help site, it would seem irony is lost on the very same people. I am dissappointed help.com I really thought something would have come out of this that may have helped improve the site and maybe cut out some of the rot. I see now you have decided to leave this post to talk itself out and let it dissapper into the abyss. I fear I may be right in the suspicions I put forward earlier on this post and the site is slipping towards another chat room rather than help site. })i({ ~LazyDaze

Well I am all talked out now lol, don't know what else to say. Don't be sorry for being blunt, blunt is a good thing on occasions as what is the point in padding out the same answer people will only get confused, I'm not offended by anything you have said I know everyone has thier own opinions and views.

Well I am all talked out now lol, don't know what else to say. Don't be sorry for being blunt, blunt is a good thing on occasions as what is the point in padding out the same answer people will only get confused, I'm not offended by anything you have said I know everyone has thier own opinions and views. })i({ ~LazyDaze

Oldfart, I think I agree with you on that, I do see some people that don't ever seem to get warned when they obviousley need a good talking too and others who genuinley didn't know what they did was wrong get a warning right off, and that I don't understand either, and there are one or two people on this site that I have no idea how they have avoided being banned 10 times over....
Maybe this site works on a "teachers pet" kind of scheme, you either have the qualities they like or you don't and if you don't then your on the hit list before you even put a foot wrong....
Who knows.... Kind of scarey though..... **peels eyes open**

Oldfart, I think I agree with you on that, I do see some people that don't ever seem to get warned when they obviousley need a good talking too and others who genuinley didn't know what they did was wrong get a warning right off, and that I don't understand either, and there are one or two people on this site that I have no idea how they have avoided being banned 10 times over.... Maybe this site works on a "teachers pet" kind of scheme, you either have the qualities they like or you don't and if you don't then your on the hit list before you even put a foot wrong.... Who knows.... Kind of scarey though..... **peels eyes open** xbox

xbox wrote:
[I'm sorry to be so blunt

Lazy the apology was not directed at you (but rather was more general in nature).

I don't think you have done anything wrong (and I certainly wouldn't ban you -- or at least it seems beyond the realm of possibilites... ;)

[quote xbox][I'm sorry to be so blunt[/quote]Lazy the apology was not directed at you (but rather was more general in nature). I don't think you have done anything wrong (and I certainly wouldn't ban you -- or at least it <i>seems</i> beyond the realm of possibilites... ;) })i({ ~LazyDaze

Ahh thanks x, that was a sweet thought even after I called you childish :O

I am still trying to keep up with this post though :D Hubby will be proud lol anything technical and you don't see me for dust!

Ahh thanks x, that was a sweet thought even after I called you childish :O I am still trying to keep up with this post though :D Hubby will be proud lol anything technical and you don't see me for dust! Jebus Zeus

does sex have anything to do with this conversation/

does sex have anything to do with this conversation/ can't relate to people that good, i have never been able to,if you would ask me who i relate to the most, i would have to say roger rabbit. xbox

Oldfart wrote:
I see now you have decided to leave this post to talk itself out and let it dissapper into the abyss.

sorry -- couldn't resist!

Original on YouTube.com

[quote Oldfart]I see now you have decided to leave this post to talk itself out and let it dissapper into the abyss.[/quote]sorry -- I couldn't resist! [youtube:<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Bweb1nJY4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Bweb1nJY4</a>] Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 14 hours ago (15 hours, 51 minutes after post)

If you are controversial and that attracts attention than you may find you have allies where you least expect (this post could be an example of that, as its the top post today and comes from a previously banned member and has been closed and re-opened).

This brings me full circle to the sponsored links argument, however if you are being negative in manner that hurts business then you may find yourself banned quicker than you can get a reason for.

And Xbox maybe you should have finished with saying to KT1....."now go away or I'll taunt you a second time"

If you are controversial and that attracts attention than you may find you have allies where you least expect (this post could be an example of that, as its the top post today and comes from a previously banned member and has been closed and re-opened). This brings me full circle to the sponsored links argument, however if you are being negative in manner that hurts business then you may find yourself banned quicker than you can get a reason for. And Xbox maybe you should have finished with saying to KT1....."now go away or I'll taunt you a second time" xbox

I don't feel that this post has reached any "conclusion" -- and I feel that is perfectly OK.

"Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one."

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/today...

I don't feel that this post has reached any "conclusion" -- and I feel that is perfectly OK. Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one. <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://thinkexist.com/quotation/today_was_good-today_was_fun-tomorrow_is_another/202979.html">http://thinkexist.com/quotation/today_was_good-today_was_fun-tomorrow_is_another/202979.html</a> KT1

What open questions are there?

What open questions are there? Jade
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 12 hours ago (17 hours, 50 minutes after post)

Jade wrote:
Ok KT1 - you have to monitoring this post - please satisfy my curiosity???? :)

[quote Jade]Ok KT1 - you have to monitoring this post - please satisfy my curiosity???? :)[/quote] KT1

Not really... the ad policy is clear. http://help.com/faq#sect20

The links the OP was using were flagged by other users as spam and they were in clear violation of the policy.

Not really... the ad policy is clear. <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://help.com/faq#sect20">http://help.com/faq#sect20</a> The links the OP was using were flagged by other users as spam and they were in clear violation of the policy. k

Xbox, you realize that the links you post are called "Parked Domain Names." Parked domain names are used for advertising the sale of a web domain. They're not a reference source. So not only are they not useful they're advertising the sale of a product in a unrelated environment. Therefore, I shall stand behind KT1, on her decision for she is right in this case.

Now, I also do resent the fact that you believe we ban people based upon the fact that we dislike them. That is not the case and all bans are carried out following the Terms of Service you agreed to when you registered for this site. The existence of your account is proof of you agreeing to those terms. Therefore, we reserve the right to ban any user who violates those terms.

Xbox, I also do find your conduct towards KT very inappropriate. Not only do you disregard what she says but you talk back to her. She has been giving your straight answers throughout and you seem to want the answers you're looking for.

I don't mean any disrespect towards you Xbox but it seems like you are making personal attack on KT. I will not allow that towards ANY member of this site. What you were posting was NOT helpful and was just ads. That's it. Stop trying to fight it. Please. You're digging your hole deeper with each attack you take.

I ask that you drop the topic and I do welcome your insights for towards other users that you're giving so generously.

Xbox, you realize that the links you post are called "Parked Domain Names." Parked domain names are used for advertising the sale of a web domain. They're not a reference source. So not only are they not useful they're advertising the sale of a product in a unrelated environment. Therefore, I shall stand behind KT1, on her decision for she is right in this case. Now, I also do resent the fact that you believe we ban people based upon the fact that we dislike them. That is not the case and all bans are carried out following the Terms of Service you agreed to when you registered for this site. The existence of your account is proof of you agreeing to those terms. Therefore, we reserve the right to ban any user who violates those terms. Xbox, I also do find your conduct towards KT very inappropriate. Not only do you disregard what she says but you talk back to her. She has been giving your straight answers throughout and you seem to want the answers you're looking for. I don't mean any disrespect towards you Xbox but it seems like you are making personal attack on KT. I will not allow that towards ANY member of this site. What you were posting was NOT helpful and was just ads. That's it. Stop trying to fight it. Please. You're digging your hole deeper with each attack you take. I ask that you drop the topic and I do welcome your insights for towards other users that you're giving so generously. krgreene8

xbox wrote:
I don't feel that this post has reached any "conclusion" -- and I feel that is perfectly OK.

"Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one."

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/today...

I like the quote..

[quote xbox]I don't feel that this post has reached any "conclusion" -- and I feel that is perfectly OK. Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one. <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://thinkexist.com/quotation/today_was_good-today_was_fun-tomorrow_is_another/202979.html">http://thinkexist.com/quotation/today_was_good-today_was_fun-tomorrow_is_another/202979.html</a>[/quote]I like the quote.. hal9000

xbox WAY TO GO !!! :)
it started with "Please stop spamming posts with URLs to fill in the contact form"
did anyone notice how many times the "URL" got mentioned in this post...
just how many people visited this "URL"... talk about creating traffic...

KT1, i don't understand it... u should have banned him the second he asked questions... i mean u did visit this "URL" !!! :(

xbox WAY TO GO !!! :) it started with "Please stop spamming posts with URLs to fill in the contact form" did anyone notice how many times the "URL" got mentioned in this post... just how many people visited this "URL"... talk about creating traffic... KT1, i don't understand it... u should have banned him the second he asked questions... i mean u did visit this "URL" !!! :( xbox

k wrote:
Xbox, you realize that the links you post are called "Parked Domain Names." Parked domain names are used for advertising the sale of a web domain. They're not a reference source. So not only are they not useful they're advertising the sale of a product in a unrelated environment. Therefore, I shall stand behind KT1, on her decision for she is right in this case.

Now, I also do resent the fact that you believe we ban people based upon the fact that we dislike them. That is not the case and all bans are carried out following the Terms of Service you agreed to when you registered for this site. The existence of your account is proof of you agreeing to those terms. Therefore, we reserve the right to ban any user who violates those terms.

Xbox, I also do find your conduct towards KT very inappropriate. Not only do you disregard what she says but you talk back to her. She has been giving your straight answers throughout and you seem to want the answers you're looking for.

I don't mean any disrespect towards you Xbox but it seems like you are making personal attack on KT. I will not allow that towards ANY member of this site. What you were posting was NOT helpful and was just ads. That's it. Stop trying to fight it. Please. You're digging your hole deeper with each attack you take.

I ask that you drop the topic and I do welcome your insights for towards other users that you're giving so generously.

I get angry when people think they understand something they obviously know little or nothing about and then start pontificating or something like that.

One of the leading providers of domain parking is Google. Since you are obviously unclear about how domain parking works (or doesn't work), I suggest you try to contact a Google representative and ask them to explain it to you.

It is not my job to explain technology that other people develop, especially when I think it doesn't really achieve very much.

Original on YouTube.com

[quote k]Xbox, you realize that the links you post are called "Parked Domain Names." Parked domain names are used for advertising the sale of a web domain. They're not a reference source. So not only are they not useful they're advertising the sale of a product in a unrelated environment. Therefore, I shall stand behind KT1, on her decision for she is right in this case. Now, I also do resent the fact that you believe we ban people based upon the fact that we dislike them. That is not the case and all bans are carried out following the Terms of Service you agreed to when you registered for this site. The existence of your account is proof of you agreeing to those terms. Therefore, we reserve the right to ban any user who violates those terms. Xbox, I also do find your conduct towards KT very inappropriate. Not only do you disregard what she says but you talk back to her. She has been giving your straight answers throughout and you seem to want the answers you're looking for. I don't mean any disrespect towards you Xbox but it seems like you are making personal attack on KT. I will not allow that towards ANY member of this site. What you were posting was NOT helpful and was just ads. That's it. Stop trying to fight it. Please. You're digging your hole deeper with each attack you take. I ask that you drop the topic and I do welcome your insights for towards other users that you're giving so generously.[/quote]I get angry when people think they understand something they obviously know little or nothing about and then start pontificating or something like that. One of the leading providers of domain parking is Google. Since you are obviously unclear about how domain parking works (or <i>doesn't</i> work), I suggest you try to contact a Google representative and ask them to explain it to you. It is not my job to explain technology that other people develop, especially when I think it doesn't really achieve very much. [youtube:<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHJMp5bz9u8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHJMp5bz9u8</a>] xbox

k wrote:
I also do resent the fact that you believe we ban people based upon the fact that we dislike them.

AFAIK, I have never said anything of the sort -- please check the facts.

:(

[quote k]I also do resent the fact that you believe we ban people based upon the fact that we dislike them.[/quote]AFAIK, I have never said anything of the sort -- please check the facts. :( xbox

k wrote:
you disregard what she says but you talk back to her

Again: utter nonsense #NAME? attention to what she say. On the contrary, I pay very close attention to what she says. Indeed: that is why I started this thread -- to get help from people so that I might be better able to understand what she says.

Perhaps you are disregarding my regard for KT1?

[quote k]you disregard what she says but you talk back to her[/quote]Again: <b>utter nonsense</b> -- if I were to disregard KT1 then that would mean I do not pay attention to what she say. On the contrary, I pay very close attention to what she says. Indeed: that is why I started this thread -- to get <b><i>help</i></b> from people so that I might be better able to understand what she says. Perhaps you are disregarding my regard for KT1? xbox

k wrote:
I don't mean any disrespect towards you Xbox but it seems like you are making personal attack on KT.

My previous replies to your other points are evidence of the fact that perhaps you do not see things clearly. Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself!

:(

[quote k]I don't mean any disrespect towards you Xbox but it seems like you are making personal attack on KT.[/quote]My previous replies to your other points are evidence of the fact that perhaps <i>you</i> do not see things clearly. Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself! :( sherryn

Do you feel happy now you've had a little bit of attention?

Do you feel happy now you've had a little bit of attention? hal9000

didn't i post something here ????

didn't i post something here ???? xbox

sherryn wrote:
Do you feel happy now you've had a little bit of attention?

I feel this question is off topic in the context of this thread (if you wish to pursue it further, then please start a new thread on the new topic you wish to raise -- perhaps adding a link to the new thread here in this thread if you feel that it is relevant to the topic of this thread.

This thread is about the censorshop of posts on help.com -- and perhaps also about the clandestine manner in which they are carried out. It is also about the active participation of the members of this site and about something that is sometimes referred to as the "attention economy".

It is not about anything personal.

If, however, you feel that I am wrong about this, then I guess you could explain what you mean (as long as you are permitted to do so by the site management ;).

[quote sherryn]Do you feel happy now you've had a little bit of attention?[/quote]I feel this question is off topic in the context of this thread (if you wish to pursue it further, then please start a new thread on the new topic you wish to raise -- perhaps adding a link to the new thread here in this thread if you feel that it <i>is</i> relevant to the topic of this thread. This thread is about the censorshop of posts on help.com -- and perhaps also about the clandestine manner in which they are carried out. It is also about the active participation of the members of this site and about something that is sometimes referred to as the "attention economy". It is <i>not</i> about anything personal. If, however, you feel that I am wrong about this, then I guess you could explain what you mean (as long as you are permitted to do so by the site management ;). xbox

hal9000 wrote:
didn't i post something here ????

yes, I see it --s something that matter?

BTW (just in passing): Personally, I would not subscribe to your draconian suggestions. I feel simply extinguishing protest by brute force is neither good business ethics nor a sustainable business plan -- but of course you are entitled to your own point of view (but I do not really feel impelled to argue about it if I feel it is moot).

[quote hal9000]didn't i post something here ????[/quote]yes, I see it -- is something that matter? BTW (just in passing): Personally, I would not subscribe to your draconian suggestions. I feel simply extinguishing protest by brute force is neither good business ethics nor a sustainable business plan -- but of course you are entitled to your own point of view (but I do not really feel impelled to argue about it if I feel it is moot). xbox

After having "slept on it" and also after taking a walk outside (and getting some "fresh air" to think about the issue), I have come to the conclusion that this issue can be distilled down to the following question:

Which measuring stick can / should be universally applied to resolving the whether a link is labeled an advertisement or not?

So far (AFAIK), we have come up with 2 answers to this question:

1. presence/absence of "sponsored links" on the page (though that can in some instances be hard to identify)

2. "amount" of non "sponsored links" content on a page

Let me use some site examples (these sites are not registered in my name (I have simply arbitrarily selected 2 top results for a Googe.COM search for "free"):

1. http://www.thefreedictionary.com

2. http://www.freerepublic.com

With example #1, I find it difficult to assess which of the content might pass as "sponsored", versus which portions are deemed to be "not sponsored".

With example #2, I find the amount of data on the page to be too much for me to digest (pages like this put my brain into meltdown mode).

With both of these examples, I feel it becomes clear that the evaluation of content is a distinctly subjective opinion --n other words: there is no way to make an "objectively valid/correct" assessment #NAME? value judgment (it has also occurred to me that some people may have perhaps interpreted my use of the term "value judgment" as if I had meant a "value judgment of my character" -- however, I actually meant it to refer to a "value judgment of information" [i.e., information available on the internet]).

Now if this were my personal website, and I don't like websites with "too much information", then I could simply say that I wouldn't allow any links to websites with "too much information". Likewise, if this were KT1's website, then she could simply say that she wouldn't allow any links to websites with "not enough information". In such cases, the result would simply be either my opinion or KT1's opinion (that is what I meant when I said above that the result for this site would be more about the person/s who is/are "gardening" the website than about the community which is participating here).

If, on the other hand, the focus is more on what is important to the community of participants, then IMHO there needs to be less emphasis on personal value judgments and more emphasis on methods of "gardening" the website that involve more community participation.

And I also feel I need to reiterate how important I feel it is that such methods need to be transparent to the entire community's membership, and not hidden in some clandestine underground dungeon or "shouting chamber".

I feel this has been my point of view all along -- and so far I have not learned anything that would convince me that another approach would be better.

After having "slept on it" and also after taking a walk outside (and getting some "fresh air" to think about the issue), I have come to the conclusion that this issue can be distilled down to the following question: <b>Which measuring stick can / should be <i>universally</i> applied to resolving the whether a link is labeled an advertisement or not?</b> So far (AFAIK), we have come up with 2 answers to this question: 1. presence/absence of "sponsored links" on the page (though that can in some instances be hard to identify) 2. "amount" of non "sponsored links" content on a page Let me use some site examples (these sites are <i>not</i> registered in my name (I have simply arbitrarily selected 2 top results for a Googe.COM search for "free"): 1. <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com">http://www.thefreedictionary.com</a> 2. <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.freerepublic.com">http://www.freerepublic.com</a> With example #1, I find it difficult to assess which of the content might pass as "<i>sponsored</i>", versus which portions are deemed to be "<i>not sponsored</i>". With example #2, I find the amount of data on the page to be <i>too much</i> for me to digest (pages like this put my brain into meltdown mode). With both of these examples, I feel it becomes clear that the evaluation of content is a distinctly subjective opinion -- in other words: <b>there is no way to make an "<i>objectively valid/correct</i>" assessment</b> -- and this is precisely what I mean when I say that it boils down to a "value judgment" (it has also occurred to me that some people may have perhaps interpreted my use of the term "value judgment" as if I had meant a "value judgment of <i>my character</i>" -- however, I actually meant it to refer to a "value judgment of <i>information</i>" [i.e., information available on the internet]). Now if this were my personal website, and I don't like websites with too much information, then I could simply say that I wouldn't allow any links to websites with "too much information". Likewise, if this were KT1's website, then she could simply say that she wouldn't allow any links to websites with "not enough information". In such cases, the result would simply be either <i>my opinion</i> or <i>KT1's opinion</i> (that is what I meant when I said above that the result for <i>this</i> site would be more about the person/s who is/are "gardening" the website than about the community which is participating here). If, on the other hand, the focus is more on what is important to the community of participants, then IMHO there needs to be less emphasis on personal value judgments and more emphasis on methods of "gardening" the website that involve more community participation. And I also feel I need to reiterate how important I feel it is that such methods need to be <b>transparent</b> to the entire community's membership, and not hidden in some clandestine underground dungeon or "shouting chamber". I feel this has been my point of view all along -- and so far I have not learned anything that would convince me that another approach would be better. })i({ ~LazyDaze

x, from what I can understand, people can post links to other sites that are relevent to what the post is about, I clicked on a link of yours and got allot of very strong pornographic images, don't know where that was supposed to come into the post topic but hey, done now.
I think that the issue is that you were posting links that took you nowhere other than a sponsor/advert that was of no help to others. So I can see why it was/is stopped as if everyone started doing that then no one would click on any links here as you would never know where you would end up and what you would see. The admins are trying to keep this place safe and they can't do that if they have to constantly check outside links to see if they are safe.

x, from what I can understand, people can post links to other sites that are relevent to what the post is about, I clicked on a link of yours and got allot of very strong pornographic images, don't know where that was supposed to come into the post topic but hey, done now. I think that the issue is that you were posting links that took you nowhere other than a sponsor/advert that was of no help to others. So I can see why it was/is stopped as if everyone started doing that then no one would click on any links here as you would never know where you would end up and what you would see. The admins are trying to keep this place safe and they can't do that if they have to constantly check outside links to see if they are safe. xbox

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:
x, from what I can understand, people can post links to other sites that are relevent to what the post is about, I clicked on a link of yours and got allot of very strong pornographic images, don't know where that was supposed to come into the post topic but hey, done now.I think that the issue is that you were posting links that took you nowhere other than a sponsor/advert that was of no help to others. So I can see why it was/is stopped as if everyone started doing that then no one would click on any links here as you would never know where you would end up and what you would see.

Yes, I am now beginning to regret having asked for the community's advice on the experiment I did with the sponsored links. But the thread did explain that it was about evaluating the efficacy of such "sponsored links" services. I don't know why I think they would be useful -- guess I was just having a bad day or something like that. At any rate, I tried to correct the mistake ASAP. Do think it is possible to forgive me for that mistake? I am truly very sorry about it.

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:
The admins are trying to keep this place safe and they can't do that if they have to constantly check outside links to see if they are safe.

So does this mean that you would prefer a scenario in which the personal judgment of the admins "trumps" a method by which the community could be more actively (and transparently) involved in flagging inappropriate content?

[quote })i({ ~LazyDaze]x, from what I can understand, people can post links to other sites that are relevent to what the post is about, I clicked on a link of yours and got allot of very strong pornographic images, don't know where that was supposed to come into the post topic but hey, done now.I think that the issue is that you were posting links that took you nowhere other than a sponsor/advert that was of no help to others. So I can see why it was/is stopped as if everyone started doing that then no one would click on any links here as you would never know where you would end up and what you would see.[/quote]Yes, I am now beginning to regret having asked for the community's advice on the experiment I did with the sponsored links. But the thread <i>did</i> explain that it was about evaluating the efficacy of such "sponsored links" services. I don't know why I think they would be useful -- I guess I was just having a bad day or something like that. At any rate, I tried to correct the mistake ASAP. Do think it is possible to forgive me for that mistake? I am truly very sorry about it. [quote })i({ ~LazyDaze]The admins are trying to keep this place safe and they can't do that if they have to constantly check outside links to see if they are safe.[/quote]So does this mean that you would prefer a scenario in which the personal judgment of the admins "trumps" a method by which the community could be more actively (and transparently) involved in flagging inappropriate content? })i({ ~LazyDaze

x, I forgive you :)

You seem to forget when you say things like "personal judgment of the admins trumps a mothod which the community could be more actively involved" that half of this community are aged between 13 and 18, I would not want a 13 year old to click on a link like you one for example and then expect after that child has seen adult content to flag it, and anyway when people see stuff like that they flag it, or should, anyway so we are doing our bit.

Do you know, I have seen a day without admins and mods in here, and it was totaly scarey!!
I did not stay long at all, people were posting what the hell they wanted, rude, agressive, and dirty things, some were posting hatefull things about other members etc and in chat it was just a free for all argument that seemed very violent so to speak.....
So I do see what the admins do, and I wish you had seen that day as maybe you would not be so quick to say the things you do.

x, I forgive you :) You seem to forget when you say things like "personal judgment of the admins trumps a mothod which the community could be more actively involved" that half of this community are aged between 13 and 18, I would not want a 13 year old to click on a link like you one for example and then expect after that child has seen adult content to flag it, and anyway when people see stuff like that they flag it, or should, anyway so we are doing our bit. Do you know, I have seen a day without admins and mods in here, and it was totaly scarey!! I did not stay long at all, people were posting what the hell they wanted, rude, agressive, and dirty things, some were posting hatefull things about other members etc and in chat it was just a free for all argument that seemed very violent so to speak..... So I do see what the admins do, and I wish you had seen that day as maybe you would not be so quick to say the things you do. })i({ ~LazyDaze

Well I have to go and get a shower and start doing some stuff around the house.
X, I hope you get what you are looking for out of this but I really do think that you are takeing this to far and seeing to much in this, you said it is not a personal thing but to be honest I think you are letting it become one.
This is after all only a help site, you really hate the way it is run so much then I am sorry to say, just leave.
I love this site, I Love the people and I agree with the admins, not on everything but almost everything, I can see why they did what they did, ok you are angry/annoyed but what is done is done and now you know so be a better person and learn from this.
I don't want to loose you as a friend I have your e-mail if you ever wishto talk but I can not see your way of thinking on this subject anymore, you just seem to be seeing your view and nothing else, your questions have been answered more than once yet you still state you have had no answer.
I'm going now, I hope you don't attack what I have said to much although I wouldn't blame you.
Speak soon x

Emily
xxx

Well I have to go and get a shower and start doing some stuff around the house. X, I hope you get what you are looking for out of this but I really do think that you are takeing this to far and seeing to much in this, you said it is not a personal thing but to be honest I think you are letting it become one. This is after all only a help site, you really hate the way it is run so much then I am sorry to say, just leave. I love this site, I Love the people and I agree with the admins, not on everything but almost everything, I can see why they did what they did, ok you are angry/annoyed but what is done is done and now you know so be a better person and learn from this. I don't want to loose you as a friend I have your e-mail if you ever wishto talk but I can not see your way of thinking on this subject anymore, you just seem to be seeing your view and nothing else, your questions have been answered more than once yet you still state you have had no answer. I'm going now, I hope you don't attack what I have said to much although I wouldn't blame you. Speak soon x Emily xxx Oldfart
An Undisclosed Location | 1 day, 2 hours ago (1 day, 4 hours after post)

It seems you have come to a conclusion on this but for me it has exposed a side of this site that leaves a bitter after taste.

There were points raised during this discussion that were swept under the carpet and I do not think we will get answers for, I did state its not our site and we have to abide by the rules even if it is only a select few that have to follow them.

However for the rules to work the people who apply them have to abide by them first or all you have is anarchy.I have already mentioned some of inconsistances that go on during this post but I have had none answered.

I have usually came on here to help as best I could and reported what I deemed to be inapproriate, however the more the site descends into just another chat forum the more I see no reason to offer my help.
I seem to be coming on to report missuse and abuse rather than actually helping anybody, no matter how much I adjust my tags I come on to over a 100 posts and it has gotten so bad I just aknowledge all of them without looking then do a search for the few that seem to be genuine.

Sorry help.com but things are going downhill fast.

It seems you have come to a conclusion on this but for me it has exposed a side of this site that leaves a bitter after taste. There were points raised during this discussion that were swept under the carpet and I do not think we will get answers for, I did state its not our site and we have to abide by the rules even if it is only a select few that have to follow them. However for the rules to work the people who apply them have to abide by them first or all you have is anarchy.I have already mentioned some of inconsistances that go on during this post but I have had none answered. I have usually came on here to help as best I could and reported what I deemed to be inapproriate, however the more the site descends into just another chat forum the more I see no reason to offer my help. I seem to be coming on to report missuse and abuse rather than actually helping anybody, no matter how much I adjust my tags I come on to over a 100 posts and it has gotten so bad I just aknowledge all of them without looking then do a search for the few that seem to be genuine. Sorry help.com but things are going downhill fast. xbox

})i({ ~LazyDaze wrote:
Well I have to go and get a shower and start doing some stuff around the house.
X, I hope you get what you are looking for out of this but I really do think that you are takeing this to far and seeing to much in this, you said it is not a personal thing but to be honest I think you are letting it become one.
This is after all only a help site, you really hate the way it is run so much then I am sorry to say, just leave.
I love this site, I Love the people and I agree with the admins, not on everything but almost everything, I can see why they did what they did, ok you are angry/annoyed but what is done is done and now you know so be a better person and learn from this.
I don't want to loose you as a friend I have your e-mail if you ever wishto talk but I can not see your way of thinking on this subject anymore, you just seem to be seeing your view and nothing else, your questions have been answered more than once yet you still state you have had no answer.
I'm going now, I hope you don't attack what I have said to much although I wouldn't blame you.
Speak soon x

Emily
xxx

Emily, you say: "I agree with the admins" -- someone else above said the much the same thing, and I feel that my reply will fall much the same way: is this a blanket statement that extends to everything any admin might have said or will say in the future? You may not have intended it that way, but now that "the ink has dried", that's the way it will stand until time immemorial (or until some admin decides to wipe out this thread -- just something to think about ;)

If you feel that if/when an admin bans my account on this site, that it was my decision to "leave"... -- then I feel (IMHO) that that is a little bit of a "quirky" perspective. But I guess it's your right to think whatever you like -- after all: it's your head, right?

;D nmw

[quote })i({ ~LazyDaze]Well I have to go and get a shower and start doing some stuff around the house. X, I hope you get what you are looking for out of this but I really do think that you are takeing this to far and seeing to much in this, you said it is not a personal thing but to be honest I think you are letting it become one. This is after all only a help site, you really hate the way it is run so much then I am sorry to say, just leave. I love this site, I Love the people and I agree with the admins, not on everything but almost everything, I can see why they did what they did, ok you are angry/annoyed but what is done is done and now you know so be a better person and learn from this. I don't want to loose you as a friend I have your e-mail if you ever wishto talk but I can not see your way of thinking on this subject anymore, you just seem to be seeing your view and nothing else, your questions have been answered more than once yet you still state you have had no answer. I'm going now, I hope you don't attack what I have said to much although I wouldn't blame you. Speak soon x Emily xxx[/quote]Emily, you say: "I agree with the admins" -- someone else above said the much the same thing, and I feel that my reply will fall much the same way: is this a blanket statement that extends to everything any admin might have said or will say in the future? You may not have intended it that way, but now that "the ink has dried", that's the way it will stand until time immemorial (or until some admin decides to wipe out this thread -- just something to <i>think</i> about ;) If you feel that if/when an admin bans my account on this site, that it was my decision to "leave"... -- then I feel (IMHO) that that is a little bit of a "<i>quirky</i>" perspective. But I guess it's your right to think whatever you like -- after all: it's <i>your</i> head, right? ;D nmw

xbox

ps -- little caveat: how much less is "almost everything" than "everything"?

BTW: The genius of Jimi Hendrix is often underestimated. Check out this wonderful cover of one his tunes by Rickie Lee Jones...

Original on YouTube.com

ps -- little caveat: how much less is "almost everything" than "everything"? BTW: The genius of Jimi Hendrix is often underestimated. Check out this wonderful cover of one his tunes by Rickie Lee Jones... [youtube:<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxAV_SPHhRA">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxAV_SPHhRA</a>] })i({ ~LazyDaze

x, I meant everything the admins do, almost everything, I agree with, meaning what I have seen or know of....
I can't agree with things I haven't seen the do same as I can't dissagree too.
You have a funny way of trying to make peoples replies sound completely different, maybe the way I type who knows :)
And no, I would not take you being banned as you leaveing, it would take you saying "goodbye" for me to think you have left, if you get banned again I would probably think "oops, thats not good but not a supprise" and would most likely side your corner once again to the admins and try and get you back even though you would have probably brought in on yourself.

You seem to be "argueing" with me on the fact that I actually like the admins and appriciate what they do. Don't get me wrong though, if I could see that you were completely innocent in this matter I would be the first one on the band wagon fighting in your name... So I won't just rll over and accept everything they say as right of justified, I am just saying that a high percantage of what they do here has a good reason and cause.

x, I meant everything the admins do, almost everything, I agree with, meaning what I have seen or know of.... I can't agree with things I haven't seen the do same as I can't dissagree too. You have a funny way of trying to make peoples replies sound completely different, maybe the way I type who knows :) And no, I would not take you being banned as you leaveing, it would take you saying "goodbye" for me to think you have left, if you get banned again I would probably think "oops, thats not good but not a supprise" and would most likely side your corner once again to the admins and try and get you back even though you would have probably brought in on yourself. You seem to be "argueing" with me on the fact that I actually like the admins and appriciate what they do. Don't get me wrong though, if I could see that you were completely innocent in this matter I would be the first one on the band wagon fighting in your name... So I won't just rll over and accept everything they say as right of justified, I am just saying that a high percantage of what they do here has a good reason and cause. k

Xbox, I don't care who parks pages. The fact that you link to them is not allowed. It doesn't matter who owns them or not. Also, Google DOESN'T park domains. They simply provide the AdSense to those pages. Therefore, your facts are wrong. Please do read http://www.google.com/domainpark/ for more information about this service. You're link ing to advertisements and that's NOT allowed. The pages you linked to ARE parked domains. They ARE not allowed here. I do NOT care who owns the page. With that this post is closed. You're officially warned about posting links to parked domains.

Post closed.

Xbox, I don't care who parks pages. The fact that you link to them is not allowed. It doesn't matter who owns them or not. Also, Google DOESN'T park domains. They simply provide the AdSense to those pages. Therefore, your facts are wrong. Please do read <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.google.com/domainpark/">http://www.google.com/domainpark/</a> for more information about this service. You're link ing to advertisements and that's NOT allowed. The pages you linked to ARE parked domains. They ARE not allowed here. I do NOT care who owns the page. With that this post is closed. You're officially warned about posting links to parked domains. <b>Post closed.</b>

This post has been closed, no more replies. Thanks!

Seeing as this post is closed, no invites are allowed.

2007/12/19

After another day of discussions, the following rule/guideline has been clarified:

 What is prohibited is simply whatever the mods and admins feel should be prohibited.

see http://help.com/post/118837

2007/12/18

There is a great amount of community participation on the help.com website, but unfortunately the help.com site is run be people who seem to be quite intolerant and do not allow free speech.

The help.com website crashes quite often and the help.com site management seems to be understaffed.

All in all, the help.com site (and in particular the help.com website) would have enormous potential, if only the help.com site were run by more competent people.

I have now been allowed to post again -- please follow the story at: http://help.com/post/118482-clearing-the-air

oops! -- that didn't last very long!!

OK, unblocked again -- keeping fingers crossed...

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